51 replies to this topic

[garynorman]

I know where you're coming from with the frustration of Unity, but don't give up...  I was at the point of giving up until CF was available, but now I have accepted that Unity is your 'broad brush' tool for giving the course it's flavour, and CF is where the detailed work will be done on the actual golf related areas...  I'm using the time until CF is available to 'prep' as many terrains as I can so that I can be in a much better position to do the 'golf bits' when I have the tool...

 

Stick with it

[Acrilix]

I've given up before I've started! 

I've decided I'm not going to be designing for PG, at least in the near future. There's too much to learn with Unity, and I could never just create generic courses without all the bells and whistles!  I'm still looking forward to playing the game though, if and when.....

At least reading through the CF posts has kept me interested in course creation, and I've finally started designing again, after a bit of a lay off.... on APCD.   

[Stephen Sullivan]

I feel the same as you Lez.  Was hoping that CF would be an easier option than APCD, but looking at Unity, I don't think it will be.

Was also hoping to be in on the CF beta but wasn't lucky ( or good ) enough to be selected 

[Mike Jones]

History has show us that people tend to stick with what they know when it comes to Course Design programs. However, CF will be there if at some point people want to give it a go. 

[Stephen Sullivan]

That is great to know Mike.  Just hope there are more people willing to help noobs like me than there were with APCD.

[shimonko]

I saw no trickery in Mike's 15 minute CourseForge video where he created a beautiful looking hole. The only Unity I saw used were the terrain tools, the skybox (pano) and the markers. Plus he had the knowledge of how to pan/zoom/rotate around the course. This is 10 minute tutorial stuff and most people who've played have already worked most of this stuff out without tutorials.

 

But if you don't want to use the prebuilt skyboxes for instance, then you will have to learn about creating skyboxes. Unlike APCD, Unity is widespread so there is a large community of help if no-one here can answer. Plus tons of tutorials and professional videos. 

 

You can't spit the dummy because Unity does something differently than APCD--every program has its strengths and weaknesses.

[shimonko]

I do however feel CF must come with a substantial library of textures, vegetation and other assets so people aren't forced to learn too much Unity too early.

[highfade]

I think there is a danger in the depth and ability of Unity to create really spectacular landscapes were will see people spending years (as in APCD) to create visual masterpieces but sometimes miss the point of just creating a good thought-out golf course with a well designed layout.

 

I won't complain and would love playing these beauties as long as the design is good but as for myself  I'll rather do 3 courses than spent all my time mastering Unity.

[Stephen Sullivan]

 

 

You can't spit the dummy because Unity does something differently than APCD--every program has its strengths and weaknesses.

The only reason I spat the dummy a little is because I would have liked to have been considered for the CF  beta as I have built and released a few fairly good courses built in APCD.  

[shimonko]

It was the initial outburst starting this thread, not you sully.

 

But if I was choosing alpha/early beta testers for a product aimed at making course design accessible to more people, I'd be picking mainly those who haven't had much success with course design, or haven't tried it but would like to.

[Mike Jones]

Amen to both Highfade's and Shimonko's posts above.

 

There is some pain associated with anything 'beta' so it made sense to choose those from the forums who had been most active in either wanting to learn or posting thoughts and ideas. We are adding to the beta team all the time and I anticipate further beta participation once the initial bugs and workflow issues have been fixed from the current version.

[Brucey Mc]

I guess there is a slight frustration from those of us who would have liked to have been using CourseForge by now but aren't.  Personally speaking if I had known that being more vocal on the forums about some things would have increased my chances of being invited on the beta testing then I may have made more noises but we are where we are on that. I too have come to the decision on getting my terrains up to a reasonable state rather than spend time on painting the terrains as I am not happy with the results that the Unity terrain painter is giving me.  I guess the state of what I have got will remain private for a bit longer then.  Anyway, hopefully us outside of the circle of trust will be able to make a case to get more involved sooner rather than later.  Hopefully I haven't derailed the original thread too much.

Bruce

[Jimbobh]

I agree Brucey Mc, I have watched this forum every day since it opened and haven't been very active. It is a little difficult commenting in here when you don't have any of these tools to comment about. I have spent countless hours trying to figure out the best ways to import terrains to work with, when the terrain importer could of made it much simpler just to get started, (unless you want to sculpt the terrain from scratch). You can paint the terrain with the limited textures you get in Unity, but you really can't fine tune anything. Planting is also limited with what you get free with Unity. It seems the Beta testing talked about in here, is a lot of setting up Unity, Photoshop and a few other things and not really a lot about CourseForge itself. Anyway, I am hoping something happens soon.

(There's another post for my tally, lol)

[sirputterman]

I too feel your frustration Bruce. Work limits my leasure time drastically and even though I often don't log in I do try and read the forums a couple of times a week. Lack of posting doesn't always mean lack of interest. I understand some that have put a lot into posting and trying different things should probably get first crack but for those of us on the outside looking in, the longer we stay on the outside the more  behind we  get. This can only lead to even more frustration in my opinion. Pretty hard to say go build a house  but you only get the  foundation  poured but no materials or the tools to do so. I hope it isn't  always this way but that is out of my control.

[shimonko]

External beta testing is about supporting a product you want to see succeed, not getting first crack. This is why I was opposed to the pay-to-test model suggested in the beta-test thread--I certainly don't pay someone to give them value. But I'm not against paying to get early access or to help fund the project.

 

Also people must be reserved for later betas, as earlier beta testers lose motivation to retest things they've already checked out. 

[Stephen Sullivan]

I always found some aspects of Links and APCD very cliquey    Was hoping PP wouldn't go the same way 

[garynorman]

I'm guessing that some of this sentiment comes from Mike Jones' post in the thread that I started...  

 

Do you think that PP owes anyone a spot on the beta team?  Do you think that the best way to get on the team is to bitch about not being on the team?

 

Yes, I want to be a part of testing, who doesn't, but instead of continually saying 'please let me test' I am trying to show that I would actually add value to the process. If PP choose not to invite me to test then I wont complain, I'll just get on with it and prep for when CF is released, because they don't owe me anything!

 

...and if you feel that posting your work on here is part of some 'audition' to get on the team, then why not be proactive and post something showing that you are making an effort to learn the tools rather than sniping at people who do...

 

Cheers,

 

Gary

[Brucey Mc]

You are dead right Gary, PP owes us nothing. I don't recall saying that they did.

My only regret is not being more vocal on public about what I was doing in unity a while back, my fault no one else's. Anyway that horse has long since bolted.

There is a lot more to life than this site.

We all do things differently so any comments I have said are not snipes at people, apologies if you thought they were. Good luck with your unity development I share in your frustrations. It will be worth it in the end judging by the results we have seen from others.

I would have kept the NDA in place so that the rest of us would be unaware of it and in harmony but that's just my opinion and not a dig at anyone.

Peace and goodwill to all

Bruce

[garynorman]

Bruce, why do you think that the horse has bolted?  Mike said that they plan to add to the beta participants, so there's still time...

 

Why not share what you have done anyway?  Whist we need CF for the 'golf stuff', we also will be relying heavily on Unity so the more that we can share as a community the more we will learn, regardless of whether CF is out there or not.

 

Apologies if I misconstrued your original comment

 

Gary

[Brucey Mc]

Gary
I am away with work in Manchester at the moment but I will post some screenshots when I get home.

More important stuff going on at the moment in the real world for me!

Cheers

Bruce