51 replies to this topic

[LasseThid]

I know this isn't really a question about CF, but since there is no Unity Forum in here I figure I might as well post in here.

I created some steps in 3DS Max that I imported into Unity and I'm trying to get them inserted in the terrain, but it's impossible to mold the terrain in a way to make the steps fit into the slope. I've tried to work with a brush size of 1 with the opacity set to 1, raising/lowering, painting to height and smoothing, but it's not possible to get the slope correct. Is there no way to add density to the mesh/move individual verts like in the APCD in unity?
If not, then how on earth are you supposed to fine tune the mesh to make sure you can add steps and such?

Is this problem caused by the fact that I'm using a terrain map created from a 10 meter DEM?

Would it be better to start with a flat piece of ground and paint the elevations?

Also, why is it that a texture added to the 3DS MAX object looks completely different from the same texture added to the Unity terrain?

[Kablammo11]

Woof…. somebody just smashed full speed into Unity. Reminds me of my first days, too, Lasse - I was screaming foul curses from morning until eveneing and all through the night.

 

- Your terrain resolution should be exactly 2049x2049, because otherwise you can't really do any small sized work. Even with this higher resolution and even at brush size 1, fine-tuning the mesh/wireframe is very tricky to do and not really advisable.

Think of it this way - anything that needs a really fine wireframe and has a size of 10 meters or less, should not involve the Unity terrain engine at all. it's just too damn rotten bad at that…  it's good for vast landscapes and utterly terrible for any kind of precision work. This is were you will need to import and add mesh objects.

We all wish it were different and easier. It isn't. 

 

- You will find the settings for terrain resolution under the little button on the furthermost right of your terrain tools. Careful: If you alter the resolution value, your terrain height map will reset to "flat". Export and save it first, change the resolution, import it back again.

If indeed you did use a 10 meter DEM, then your terrain resolution is currently too small and you need to increase it.

We all wish it were different and easier. It isn't. 

 

- There is no way to add or reduce mesh density to Unity terrain. You pick one value and that's that. The CourseForge will re-arrange vertexes at a higher density when it fuses with the terrain for its meshes, but that process can't be controlled in any way.

We all wish it were different and easier. It isn't. 

 

- it's up to you and your individual style to start flat and add elevation or to import a height map first.

 

- CF/Unity, unlike the APCD, is not a one-stop and fix-it-all affair. It's a combo of apps that even need to include yet more 3rd party apps for design and 3D creation. It is a completely different way of getting the job done and it represents a different environment and a different design culture so that comparisons with APCD always are a bit "off"...

We all wish it were different and easier. It isn't. 

 

- Yes there is a Unity3D Forum - not here, but over at Unity. There are tutorials and manuals over there. I suggest you make these places your first port of call in case of more problems. A lot can be learned and improved through self-help. You should find answers a lot more quickly by googling unity3d and keywords for your questions than having to ask here and wait hours for an answer, which, most likely will be of no help to you.

Thousands of other people, including me, have run into the same obstacles and felt disgust and revulsion at times. We just want to create a golf course or two, for Chrissakes, we don't want to evolve into uebernerds and have to learn useless junk about 3Dology…  We all wish it were different and easier. It isn't. 

 

But further down the line, Lasse, once you learned how to cope with those pesky, irritating, annoying, unfair obstacles, you will find out that it was worth it. Was for me. No pain, no gain.

[shimonko]

Can you post a pic of what you're trying to do?

If you only have a 10m DEM, upsample it in Photoshop to 2049x2049 using bicubic interpolation for smoother gradients.

[LasseThid]

Terrain Width: 2845

Terrain Lenght: 2845

Terrain Height: 152

Heighmap Resolution: 2049

Detail Resolution: 1024

Detail Resolution Per Patch : 8

Control Texture Resolution: 1024

Base Texture Resolution: 1024

 

Those are my settings for the terrain, and no I didn't just open Unity up and rush into in. I've taken two Unity courses over at Udemy and I've fiddled a bit with everything, but after creating some steps in 3DS Max I wanted to see how they looked only to find it imfrickenpossible to shape the terrain in order to make the steps fit. Even with the smallest brush available and with the lowest opacity setting I can't get it remotely close. After one hour of fiddling with this I give up and apply the same texture to the terrain just to post a screenie of the steps and even a color blind person can see the texture is light years away from looking the same.

 

Perhaps I'm better off doing the entire effin terrain in 3DS Max rather than waste my time on the useless Unity POS software... 

[IanD]

K11... regarding the Unity3D Forums.. I've wondered for a few weeks whether we'd see something more here regarding Unity Dev threads. Do you not think we could see more benefit from the specifics of what's needed, rather than the whole shenanigans..?

 

Personally, I only browsed the forums over there, I sat watching a few Tutorials on video to learn the basics, as I felt it helped seeing some reward rather than meeting a high end program that I only needed 20% of (maybe less lol). I do believe we may see a few try and fly, unless more is put into helping those with Unity issues at the early stages. It may not be the right place, within this forum, but it could benefit us all if we see one other forum regarding the setup and varied approach we may all take.

 

As for the Terrain Settings, there is another thread here I believe K11 began regarding How To Properly Set Up A Unity Terrain - it's definitely worth a read as it can help you in these areas of understanding ;

 

[LasseThid]

Well, here are two screenies showing my problems.

 

As you can see the slope doesn't match the angle of the steps, so I want the terrain to be at the same height as the top left hand part of the steps and then basically follow the edge of the steps, but I want the part inside of the steps to be lower in order for the steps to be visible.

And finally, as you can all see the texture of the grass on the steps is the same texture that I painted onto the terrain (Opacity 100 and Target Strength set to 1) 

This is kinda what I'm looking to achive...

[IanD]

Well, the resolution needs tweaking as K11 suggests above for starters. That would give you more adjustment (finer) in what you seek. However, as K11 states, you only get what you get, by increasing from 1024 to 2048. Do note his points stating what you should do before changing this value...!

 

As for the texture.. hmmmm

[shimonko]

For a typical course and a 2049 heightmap, there are vertex points every 60cm or so. This means a drop in height must take place over 60cm - you just can't have vertical drops with terrain, or even drops taking place over the width of a stair riser.

 

To do what you wish you'll have to create meshes for your step treads and texture them with grass. You'll also need to make a mesh skirt around the outside of your step structure that blends in with the terrain.

 

Turn on textured wireframe view mode and you'll be able to see what you're working with.

[Mike Jones]

TBH it's not that difficult to do this using the Unity terrain tools, the larger the area you are working on compared to the heightmap will make things harder of course. That's why it's important to make sure you terrain is optimally sized in the first place, if you have hundreds and hundreds of metres 'unused' at the sides of your course you could have used a smaller terrain and therefore had a better heightmap resolution per pixel.

 

 

 

[shimonko]

LasseThid's horizontal treads are embedded in the terrain though, rather than above it.

[Mike Jones]

Although I appreciate K11's quest for perfection, what needs to be clear that making the actual course is generally fairly easy. We have a manual with CourseForge with recommended settings which if adhered to will result in much less of a learning curve. The vast majority of people will be happy to create a course, be able to play golf on it and have it look nice. This is all quite simple.

 

We have always said however, that if you want to dig deeper and have ultimate control to create the course of your dreams it would also be possible but as with everything, the deeper you dig - the more complicated it can become. I think it might be a good idea to have a separate section for general Unity related stuff and then for Courseforge related things. This will be much more relevant when CF has been released to the general public but I think this is the way we will go. 

[Mike Jones]

LasseThid's horizontal treads are embedded in the terrain though, rather than above it.

If he raised his steps a few inches would it matter in the scheme of things?

 

I think ultimately what CourseForge and the way we're using Unity is about is allowing people to make golf courses for themselves and others to have fun on.

 

I can honestly say that the different kind of steps someone might want to create or even what style of wallpaper is on an imported clubhouse building was not high on our list of priorities when choosing Unity as our base platform and creating CourseForge to make golf courses. If someone wants something badly enough they will find a way but this is pretty much outside the scope of our software

[Brucey Mc]

There seems to be mixed messages going on. Somewhere I read that we should a reasonable distance from our holes to the edges of the terrain but now we shouldn't have too much unused terrain. Any chance of a quick guide to what PP recommends for those of us who are building terrains in unity only. My many hours spent have taught me that terrains can't be tweaked in size too easily.

[Mike Jones]

Bruce, I try and fit the Golf courses onto plot that has maybe no more than 100 metres spare to the side of the plot. This is to maximise the terrain resolution.

 

If I need areas outside of this to be visible, it's easy enough to drop another much lower resolution terrain under this to extend much further out. We are also still learning what works best and although I do my best to try and help out, we don't have all the answers of what solution might be best on any particular course because one of the great things about golf is that the courses are all so very different    

[Kablammo11]

Brucey? Old trousers with a new handle? The 300 meter "rule" was, I believe, posted by Acrilix (or axe360, on of the two A's anyway) as his personal benchmark for course design - it never was an official PP guideline.

 

Putting aside my quest for perfection (which actually is a crusade for creation), I concur with Mike: Making the actual course is simple and straightforward. Making any nondescript generic course, oh yes,  is easy and quick. 

But having a clear vision about a layout - and then trying to make that vision come to life with Unity is… hell on earth! Stil - it's a hell of my own making.

[Brucey Mc]

Thought I'd become less formal name wise.

Totally agree that each course is its own beast and one size doesn't fit all.  Its a good interesting point Mike about using multiple terrains, I hadn't thought of that!  Its all fun and games I suppose.

[Mike Jones]

Also one of the things that must not be forgotten, in virtual golf and IRL, the best looking courses are not always the most fun to play and vice versa. As with most things - variety is everything. 

[LasseThid]

I guess I'm one of those control freaks who has problems adjusting to "dumbed down" software, like moving from APCD to Unity when it comes to having control of the mesh.

It's happened a couple of times at work that I've been bitching and moaning about the new software that's been developed to make it easier for those who are new users to use. Eventually I've relaxed and then when the coin dropped I've said "Hey, this new stuff is great".   

I guess it's best for me to stop using Unity and wait until the CF is released. Perhaps there will be tools available to me then that will allow me to do what I want to do as well as instructions on how to do it. At the moment it's too much of a pain in the rear for me.

 

I did by the way recreate the RAW-file and top view and created a new terrain with the settings that K, Ian and MJ recommended, but that didn't make any difference in my opinion. The only positive thing is that I found out how to trick the system to create a rectangular plot with a square heightmap.  

[Kablammo11]

You had to go and do it, Lasse, making me - a declared non-enthusiast of Unity - go and defend Unity.

Don't get me wrong, Unity is guilty of many things such as the entire terrain engine which will turn ugly on you the moment you desire to do something interesting. But Unity is a game engine - a place and an evironment (they call themselves an ecosystem) where different parts from different sources are brought together and combined into a game. Unity does not help create, construct and design at all - it leaves that to all the other 3rd-party apps out there, some of which may be dumbed down, others highly specialised pro apps.

Unity's main task is to combine, amalgamate, sequence, unify all the different parts into a playable game. I'm afraid you are barking up the wrong tree, Sir. 

[LasseThid]

Relax K.

Yesterday morning I may have barked up the wrong tree because I'm used to being able to control the mesh in the APCD.
Yesterday evening I just concluded calmly that since I don't have the CF I have no idea what I can do with it and what I can't, so I'm better off not using Unity at all until I have CF.
I know Unity is designed to create games and not a terrain modification tool and most likely my frustration with the lack of ability to work with the mesh got the better of me yesterday morning.
Perhaps I will be better off working with the terrain in the APCD and then import it into Unity with the Terrain Importer once everything is released, or perhaps I'm better off not designing at all. 

Anywho, I'm out of here for now. Sorry for the trouble I caused.