286 replies to this topic

[Crow357]

Yes.  Coupons = Free Trees.  The existing courses were made by, essentially, beta testers, some of whom went and bought and paid for speed trees and other assets.  If there are any, decent, trees available, I'm personally not aware of them.  Yes, you can make your own trees out of Unity, but mine looked like crap.  Only one guy that I know of, made his this way and he's since switched to speed tree. 

 

Course Forge without trees = really unhappy new course designers.  The speed tree modeller from Speedtree is $20/mo.  The good thing is, you can make all the trees you can in one month, stop the service and keep all your trees forever and ever, amen.  You can also, pay another $20 and use it another month.  But, PP really wants people to have some trees right out of the box and getting people coupons to purchase trees is the best they could come up with.

[johnmeyer]

wow, didnt realise Speedtree was that much. For sure I see why they wanted it, and its great that they have gone to provide this with CF.

 

Are ones found on the likes of TF3DM etc not any good then?

[nightowl]

What was PP planning to do about CF trees before the idea of SpeedTree trees came up? I mean, I don't recall hearing about this tree problem until very late in the game. Another way to put the question is: Why wasn't this SpeedTree agreement hammered out long before now?

[mebby]

Wow.  I guess I naively wasn't aware that the current crop of user created content wasn't using SpeedTree.  If THAT'S the case then I honestly can't understand why CF is being held back.  There's obviously an abundance of perfectly acceptable trees in these courses.

 

What am I missing?

[Richard]

Wow.  I guess I naively wasn't aware that the current crop of user created content wasn't using SpeedTree.  If THAT'S the case then I honestly can't understand why CF is being held back.  There's obviously an abundance of perfectly acceptable trees in these courses.

 

What am I missing?

 

 

Yes.  Coupons = Free Trees.  The existing courses were made by, essentially, beta testers, some of whom went and bought and paid for speed trees and other assets.  If there are any, decent, trees available, I'm personally not aware of them.  Yes, you can make your own trees out of Unity, but mine looked like crap.  Only one guy that I know of, made his this way and he's since switched to speed tree. 

 

Course Forge without trees = really unhappy new course designers.  The speed tree modeller from Speedtree is $20/mo.  The good thing is, you can make all the trees you can in one month, stop the service and keep all your trees forever and ever, amen.  You can also, pay another $20 and use it another month.  But, PP really wants people to have some trees right out of the box and getting people coupons to purchase trees is the best they could come up with.

 

Mebby, I'll assume that you misread Crow's post. Note he indicated that some of the designers purchased speedtree assets directly. I take that to indicate that many of the trees in the existing courses are in fact speedtree.

 

Now the question is, if I'm wrong what am I missing??

[mebby]

Mebby, I'll assume that you misread Crow's post. Note he indicated that some of the designers purchased speedtree assets directly. I take that to indicate that many of the trees in the existing courses are in fact speedtree.

 

Now the question is, if I'm wrong what am I missing??

Ah!  Thanks for the clarification.

 

So this leads to me to THIS point... why not go ahead and release CF with the caveat that they are still working on a deal with SpeedTree?  If someone wants to pay the $20 monthly subscription fee then they can.  Or they can wait.  Seems like a simple in-between solution.

 

It's easy to armchair quarterback though so I'm sure I'm just not thinking through some of the more important details.

[Richard]

Ah!  Thanks for the clarification.

 

So this leads to me to THIS point... why not go ahead and release CF with the caveat that they are still working on a deal with SpeedTree?  If someone wants to pay the $20 monthly subscription fee then they can.  Or they can wait.  Seems like a simple in-between solution.

 

It's easy to armchair quarterback though so I'm sure I'm just not thinking through some of the more important details.

 

I understand your suggestion, but one of the things that really bothers me regarding PP and JNPG and CF is that too many posters question business decisions made by the principals. It definitely is 'armchair quarterbacking'. PP is a privately held business and has no obligation to share its decisions or the rationale behind them unless that decide to. Spending either $20 (EA) or $35 now does not change that. 

[Crow357]

What was PP planning to do about CF trees before the idea of SpeedTree trees came up? I mean, I don't recall hearing about this tree problem until very late in the game. Another way to put the question is: Why wasn't this SpeedTree agreement hammered out long before now?

Speedtree has always been a thing. I can't go into issues of the past, but PP has always had the intention of having trees for the CF user when CF was released. The last thing they wanted to have happen was, "Here's Course Forge. Good luck getting trees."

[nightowl]

Well, sure. Trees would be pretty important to include among the CF assets. I guess I'm still wondering why PP did not implement a solution long before the eleventh hour.

[Crow357]

Well, sure. Trees would be pretty important to include among the CF assets. I guess I'm still wondering why PP did not implement a solution long before the eleventh hour.

Well, maybe it seems that way? They've been working on it behind the scenes for over a year. They reached the agreement with Speedtree around July 4th this year. So, we're all just waiting for Speedtree.

[nightowl]

For the record, I've always been willing to give PP the benefit of the doubt. But I do begin to wonder, based on what I've observed these past 3 years, if they know what they're doing. The Kickstarter venture had next to no PR support after it was announced, and it failed spectacularly. Communication has been limited at best and non-existent for long periods of time at worst. CF has been delayed for one reason after another after another. That it was a sure thing to be released by the end of 2015, but was not, after all those delays, reflects poorly on PP. Now we have the SpeedTree debacle. (Even if someone never planned to use CF, the way it's been handled has to raise some questions.) I could also mention the lack of fanfare that accompanied the public release of the game. Plus, the lackluster sales of Bethesda, for which AJ seemed to blame us, the most loyal users. (It wasn't the revenue generator "we" led him to believe. Really? It's our fault? Talk about failing to take personal responsibility for his own decision.). I've supported the game, making a Kickstarter pledge, purchasing all the add-on courses and extras. And like I said, I've tried to give PP the benefit of the doubt. But PP no longer inspires confidence, I'm afraid.

[mebby]

I understand your suggestion, but one of the things that really bothers me regarding PP and JNPG and CF is that too many posters question business decisions made by the principals. It definitely is 'armchair quarterbacking'. PP is a privately held business and has no obligation to share its decisions or the rationale behind them unless that decide to. Spending either $20 (EA) or $35 now does not change that. 

LOL!  Yea Richard BUT... the one thing you seem to be missing here is that the ONE person that ANY business (public, private, whatever) is most accountable to is their customer.

 

But you're right.  They don't owe anyone an explanation.

 

However, if you keep saying "it's coming" and it never comes... for months on end then I think you've earned the right to listen to a few questions and a whole host of people arm chair quarterbacking.

[Crow357]

I don't know where you read sales was lackluster or where AJ blamed you, but hey.  I guess we're done here then.  I shouldn't have bothered.

[mebby]

For the record, I've always been willing to give PP the benefit of the doubt. But I do begin to wonder, based on what I've observed these past 3 years, if they know what they're doing. The Kickstarter venture had next to no PR support after it was announced, and it failed spectacularly. Communication has been limited at best and non-existent for long periods of time at worst. CF has been delayed for one reason after another after another. That it was a sure thing to be released by the end of 2015, but was not, after all those delays, reflects poorly on PP. Now we have the SpeedTree debacle. (Even if someone never planned to use CF, the way it's been handled has to raise some questions.) I could also mention the lack of fanfare that accompanied the public release of the game. Plus, the lackluster sales of Bethesda, for which AJ seemed to blame us, the most loyal users. (It wasn't the revenue generator "we" led him to believe. Really? It's our fault? Talk about failing to take personal responsibility for his own decision.). I've supported the game, making a Kickstarter pledge, purchasing all the add-on courses and extras. And like I said, I've tried to give PP the benefit of the doubt. But PP no longer inspires confidence, I'm afraid.

I'm still enjoying the game and I'm still a fan/promoter of the game.  But, if I'm being 100% honest, it's very hard to find anything to disagree with in this post.

 

Nightowl is spot-on in everything he has said here. 

[Richard]

LOL!  Yea Richard BUT... the one thing you seem to be missing here is that the ONE person that ANY business (public, private, whatever) is most accountable to is their customer.

 

But you're right.  They don't owe anyone an explanation.

 

However, if you keep saying "it's coming" and it never comes... for months on end then I think you've earned the right to listen to a few questions and a whole host of people arm chair quarterbacking.

 

LOL! Yea, mebby BUT, show me any business that doesn't have customer complaints. Every current video golf game on the market has its complaints. There is no way to satisfy everyone and to spend time to try to do so is fruitless. I don't know why CF is so late and difficult to complete but I do know that PP is not under any obligation to explain it or fall on their sword because of it. Is there an alternative to ST, I have no idea and I have no idea what the consequences are to release CF without ST foliage. I guess if you're into Links course designs, the absence of ST is irrelevant.

 

Anyway, this is my last post on this subject just because there's no right answer, just opinions, that all are entitled to. Peace.

[mebby]

LOL! Yea, mebby BUT, show me any business that doesn't have customer complaints. Every current video golf game on the market has its complaints. There is no way to satisfy everyone and to spend time to try to do so is fruitless. I don't know why CF is so late and difficult to complete but I do know that PP is not under any obligation to explain it or fall on their sword because of it. Is there an alternative to ST, I have no idea and I have no idea what the consequences are to release CF without ST foliage. I guess if you're into Links course designs, the absence of ST is irrelevant.

Anyway, this is my last post on this subject just because there's no right answer, just opinions, that all are entitled to. Peace.

I respect your opinion. But this isn't a one off customer complaint. It's a common customer issue that's based on the failure of PP to deliver on their commitments. And as Nightowl mentioned, the implications of this reach will beyond those that care about the CF issue... It leaves everyone that is following the game scratching their heads with doubt about the future of the game and the development team's ability to execute.

[zmax - sim]

I can understand all the doubts and complaints here.   I'll say that I don't share these sentiments.  Remember when people were moaning about how they released Muirfield as dlc beta and  wondering whether it would ever get updated? threatening to never buy another dlc?  Well, they came thru.

 

They will deliver on CF and people will find others things to complain about.

[robbiet71]

For the record, I'm not scratching my head. It seems pretty clear to me. The devs are passionate about their game. The devs do the best they can to deliver on their intentions. Speedtree have dragged their feet over the supply of coupons for what, lets face it, is a pretty unique scenario.  Speedtree are used to selling their assets to game studios (to make finished products) and individuals (to make wahtever they make). This is very different. This is a 'game studio' wanting to give away speedtree assets to its gamers. It is not surprising, with hindsight, that Speedtree are dragging their feet over what is an unusual deal.

The idea that PP 'should have' thought about all this before hand is pretty irrelevant in the here and now. There are undoubtedly reasons why this wasn't foreseen.

Frustration with reality is understandable. How one deals with that is the responibility of the individual, not, I would argue, PP.

[J.H.Buchanan]

One time my parents took us from Miami, Florida to Cleveland, Oklahoma in a car we kept saying ... when are we getting there and they kept saying soon but eventually we did get there. The plus was that we were heading towards a fixed object - Course Forge is like two magnets that oppose each other the closer one gets the further the other moves away whoo hoo

The important thing is my montior has been acting up lines horizontally all through it but still usable but hard to see days later (today) I realized the plug in the back of it was not all the way in works fine now. 

[RobV]

 

 

Now the question is, if I'm wrong what am I missing??

That's a loaded question...