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#1521 Kablammo11

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 12:36 PM

K11, is just your dislike of Speedtree or the planting itself the bothers you?. It bothers me as well but don't know how to make it better, never really enjoys the vegetation part of course making. :mellow:

 

To be frank, both - though my bother should in no way be a concern of yours. I would have identified the foe as "Speedtrees" if it were just a Speedtree issue in this case. In your 3rd image they immediately attracted my attention - and a bit of immersion difficulties. Aside the Speedtree issue (don't get me started on that, clumpy tree blobs etc) they looked a bit out of place, not to say unnessary for this particular course with its many, lovely undulations.

I do not know the original Links Nautilus. I suppose that if you port it into CF you would also feel obligated to replicate its vegetation as closely as possible. I don't know if you think you've succeeded or if you had to make compromises - but we do have a very limited choice of tree model in CF-Land at the moment and no real prospect of this situation getting any better soon. The Devs will probably ship CF with a bare minimum of trees at the start (possible treepacks to be added at a later date) and whoever needs something extra is on his own.

Could well be then, highfade, that these trees, right now, really are the best you could do, given the lack of choice.

It still could be just me, though, and perhaps I simply missed an opportunity to STFU. Wouldn't be the first time and I'm sorry if this somehow rubbed you the wrong way. But you confessed to being a bit bothered yourself and all I can say to that is: "Good, I'm glad you are!" Everybody should be bothered by these trees, imo - though I would not know how to solve the issue. Of course I could try to interest you in Blammocorps! latest crop of links plants, but these, too, are quite ridiculous in their own right, albeit in a different way.

 

 

With regards to Speedtrees (and the Unity 5 trees K11 built?), the biggest issue from my untrained eyes point of view is how the shadows work (or don't work) between the leaves. This makes the trees very dark on one side which just looks unnatural. In the next Unity patch, 5.3 set for a December 8 release Speedtrees get improved:

 

Trath, you just pointed at something that both Unity Trees and Speedtrees refer to as AO. Ambient Occlusion. More AO means darker shadows and translucent, brightly backlit leaves when the tree is standing between you and the sun. AO adds realism, they say. But unless there isn't the brightest of sunshine, in my old eyes at least, trees are rarely that extreme in contrast IRL. They have darker and brighter areas, in a more gently and diffuse kind of way, due to the natural irradiance of light and their partially transparent leaves inundating each other with a minimum of light. So toning the AO down might be in order, but only at the expense of the trees easily looking a bit washed-out. I do not know nearly enough about this to propose a productive answer. All that I can say is that I am very aware of AO and of the self-shadows sliders of trees when fabricating one of my crippled little Unity tree editor bastards. 

I do know, however, that computer golf games through the ages have suffered from varied tree issues, each in their own way Let's face it, trees are heavy on the performance budget and will always look a bit weird no matter what. So it's official, I'm afraid: We are having a tree problem, here. PG is as much a helpless victim of this perennial scourge indigenous to computer golf as we all are, and there is not really much we can do about it,  - except design a lot of treeless links courses, where they won't be missed. On the design end, it's a constant struggle - a bit of the elephant in the room. But it is what it is and there you have it...


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#1522 highfade

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 01:10 PM

No rubbing the wrong way, K11, any help and suggestions are most welcome. The planting of trees are partly due to the total lack of bushes (I think 3) so any products from Blammocorp are always welcome. ;) 


Intel Core i5-6600 CPU 3.3 GHz       Geforce GTX 1060        16GB  RAM       Windows 10 64 bit

Hazyview  (600m above sea level)    --   Nautilus Bay  (Revamp done)  --  Cape Fear  (TGC  adaptation)  --  Aloe Ridge  --  Nahoon Reef GC  --  Chambers Bay 

Abel's Crossing  --  Solitude Links GC


#1523 Acrilix

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 02:08 PM

I have to agree about the trees - they are definitely the weakest part graphically, of the course. I think the high yellow content in some probably catch the eye more than the others. If these could be adjusted - colour changed, dulled down, or darkened I think they would probably blend in better with the landscape as a whole and may improve the look.

It's a shame that Speedtrees seem to have a much more 'cartoony' look than the Unity 4 trees.


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#1524 NoPutt

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 02:28 PM

No Trees, No Water,

but a perfect venue for

a Viagra commercial..

wKL0R7s.jpg


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Dry Gulch...................Released                     Smithfield Golf Club...........Released

Millstone Golf Club....Released                      The Walker Course............Released

Kingsmill Woods Course...Released               Pine Lake Golf Club..........Released

Woodhaven Golf Club (9) Released                The Reserve at Keowee...Released

Cliffs at Keowee Vineyards..Released              The Ace Club...................Released

Dry Gulch 2..........Released                               Blackberry Oaks.............Released

 


#1525 Kablammo11

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 03:07 PM

I dunno, NoPutt. Your insalubrious mineral outcrop must never come anywhere near my soft, sweet bushes, that's for sure...

 

 

No rubbing the wrong way, K11, any help and suggestions are most welcome. The planting of trees are partly due to the total lack of bushes (I think 3) so any products from Blammocorp are always welcome. ;) 

 

Well, for what it's worth, Blammocorp! happens to have a special on these slipshod weeds and you (and everybody else who wants them) may have them. I hope the Unity package works, let me know if it doesn't, I tried one without dependencies...

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ss4glrznhb02j6v/k11linksplants.unitypackage?dl=0

 

Content delivered "as is", some assembly may be required, batteries not included. There are 4 folders inside the "Ambient Occlusion" top folder (that you ought to import into your assets): Gorse, inside it one Gorse bush (big) and one gorse shrub (small); Heather, with one sizeable heather bush and a much smaller heather shrub; Rumex, one ruddy circular fan of rumexes; and "Volume Shrub", including three plants called "Voluminator", because I need something green and voluminous that is not too high and basically will kill the round of every golfer that thinks it's a good idea to lose his ball in there. All bushes come with colliders, the ones of the Voluminators reach deep into the ground and should require a drop or a rehit to get out of again.

highfade: should you find any use for it or not kindly send over all the grass billboards you used for Nautilus - I'm not sure if I need them, but they do look nice and I think it's time we stopped handing out freebies and started trading stuff with each other. There's a nice little bartering economy waiting for the kiss of life to get going in these parts, so pucker up! 

 

It's everything I've got. Colours will be adjusted once I get to insert proper mesh textures and shaders with the new CF. Harrumph!

 

doUxVxM.jpg

 

 

 

I have to agree about the trees - they are definitely the weakest part graphically, of the course. I think the high yellow content in some probably catch the eye more than the others. If these could be adjusted - colour changed, dulled down, or darkened I think they would probably blend in better with the landscape as a whole and may improve the look.

It's a shame that Speedtrees seem to have a much more 'cartoony' look than the Unity 4 trees.

 

All true, but I'm sure designers have tried changing colours, toning down, sprucing up etc. I know I have. I strongly doubt that there is a magic formula somewhere in there that we only need to figure out and that then everything will be splendid. Adding stuff to one part takes other stuff away at the other end... And there seems to be no golden middle, certainly not with dynamic skies and all their weather and lighting effects... 

And perhaps everything else about PG and CF is so brilliant that those effin trees that should be absolutely acceptable for your average outdoor sports simulation game suddenly are sticking out like a sore thumb, because they only are 'halfway decent' and everything else is better than that.


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>>>>>>> Ka-Boom!





• Mulligan Municipal • Willow Heath • Pommeroy • Karen • Five Sisters • Xaxnax Borealis • Aroha • Prison Puttˆ

• The Upchuck   The Shogun  • Black Swan (•)

 

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#1526 highfade

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 03:20 PM

Many thanks, will do so. ;)


Intel Core i5-6600 CPU 3.3 GHz       Geforce GTX 1060        16GB  RAM       Windows 10 64 bit

Hazyview  (600m above sea level)    --   Nautilus Bay  (Revamp done)  --  Cape Fear  (TGC  adaptation)  --  Aloe Ridge  --  Nahoon Reef GC  --  Chambers Bay 

Abel's Crossing  --  Solitude Links GC


#1527 Mike Jones

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 04:06 PM

Ultimately speedtree is a tree modeller, tree LOD engine, foliage wind effect supplier and that's about it.

 

You can -

 

Make your own trees with the speedtree modeller with your own textures etc

 

Adjust the colour, lighting, LOD, alpha cutoffs etc.

 

In other words there is little wrong with speedtree but some of the stock speedtree items could indeed be improved upon by a skillful enough modeller. You can even replace or enhance the speedtree shaders if you so wish and have the skills to do so. 

 

Speedtree isn't a limitation and if the trees in PG don't look good enough it's not down to speedtree per se but down to some of the tree models themselves. All speedtree trees are not created equal and some of the stock speedtree trees are nothing short of phenomenal (I'm looking at you mr White Birch!)



#1528 NoPutt

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 04:10 PM

I'll put my outcrop where I dang well please, pardner.

Besides, this 'ol cowboy uses lambskin when in the bushes.


Dry Gulch...................Released                     Smithfield Golf Club...........Released

Millstone Golf Club....Released                      The Walker Course............Released

Kingsmill Woods Course...Released               Pine Lake Golf Club..........Released

Woodhaven Golf Club (9) Released                The Reserve at Keowee...Released

Cliffs at Keowee Vineyards..Released              The Ace Club...................Released

Dry Gulch 2..........Released                               Blackberry Oaks.............Released

 


#1529 Kablammo11

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 05:10 PM

Your skin ain't a-touchin' me bushes, is all I'm sayin'

 

Any gifted Speedtree modellers out there? Kindly contact Mike Jones asap. We need about 500 tree and bush models in phenomenal quality by the end of this week. 

 

HIGHFADE, I forgot. My plants being Unity tree creator thingies that means that you can't plant any Speedtrees alongside them. It's either one or the other on one terrain.


>>>>>>> Ka-Boom!





• Mulligan Municipal • Willow Heath • Pommeroy • Karen • Five Sisters • Xaxnax Borealis • Aroha • Prison Puttˆ

• The Upchuck   The Shogun  • Black Swan (•)

 

<<<<<


#1530 M Rose

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 07:37 PM

I agree that the vegetation is sorely lacking at this point. I've got a desert course that I can't finish because I don't have the planting. I'm hoping that full release will have some more stock objects but also allow for some easier editing.

 

I've made some really horrid attempts at the Unity tree editor and everything so far looks like something out of a cartoon. I haven't tried speedtree as I'm not really sure how to get a trial version; the download process is very circuitous and confusing.


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#1531 Dazmaniac

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 07:45 PM

How much does the SpeedTree editor cost?

 

Ne'er mind, think I found it.

 

SpeedTree for Unity 5
With the full release of Unity 5, you can have AAA tree editing tools by subscribing to the SpeedTree Modeler, available for Windows and Mac OSX for $19 USD per month.
 
 
Looks like managing with what we got then, lol. No way I'll be designing enough to warrant paying that per month.


#1532 M Rose

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 07:49 PM

The full program is like 5 grand, lol. I think I also saw a $900 version.


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#1533 M Rose

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 08:18 PM

Cant wait for this one

 

Just wonderting what the process is on converting links .crz courses into c/f

will  c/f  convert all splines etc , then  what changes do you have to make in c/f for it to be completed and ready for pg

theres thousands of links crz courses  available

 

Terrain Forge does most of the hard work.... it will create the heightmap for you, which is basically a blank plot with all the elevation in place, although it tends to render the elevations as a series of terraces / stair-steps, so you have to do an ungodly amount of smoothing.

 

Then you simply create a giant texture which you make by opening the .crz in APCD and taking a picture of the top view; you have to make it into a square texture that is the same size as your plot, and then you lay it on top of the plot in Unity. Then in Unity / CF you simply draw all the course splines right on top of the plot, using the overhead texture image as your template.

 

I used a 1024 x 1024 grid which is not even the highest setting, and I'm pretty happy with the results I got. I had to stretch and move the overhead image a little bit to get it to line up, but eventually it was close enough. Within a couple evenings of work and after a lot of smoothing, I felt like I had something nearly identical to the APCD version.

 

There's a very good tutorial available and that helped immensely.


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#1534 Mike Jones

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 06:33 AM

The full program is like 5 grand, lol. I think I also saw a $900 version.

Yes but that's not for Unity - that's more for films and when you have a 100 million budget that isn't so bad lol

 

The unity modeller as Daz mentioned is 19.99 a month and if you make a raft load of trees in that month you don't have to continue to subscibe to use them - the modeller fee is purely for it's use.



#1535 Trath

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 06:48 AM

So who is going to project manage (and volunteer) the top 2 or 3 course designers / modelers in a month long tree-a-thon designing the most useful trees, shrubs and bushes for PG?

 

I will make it worth while by offering a free 3 day stay at my families wonderful bed and breakfast near the Addo Elephant Park in South Africa on completion of this worthy vegetative project :P (if my mother agrees, the old bird still runs the place with an iron fist).

 

www.bydandbnb.co.za


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#1536 M Rose

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 08:03 AM

Yeah, it might be the kind of thing where you buy for a month and then go crazy with it. Knowing me, it would take me most of said month just to learn how to use the dang thing.


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#1537 highfade

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 08:24 AM

Your skin ain't a-touchin' me bushes, is all I'm sayin'

 

Any gifted Speedtree modellers out there? Kindly contact Mike Jones asap. We need about 500 tree and bush models in phenomenal quality by the end of this week. 

 

HIGHFADE, I forgot. My plants being Unity tree creator thingies that means that you can't plant any Speedtrees alongside them. It's either one or the other on one terrain.

 

Bummer, what happens when you do? I think I've got some of both on my plot?


Intel Core i5-6600 CPU 3.3 GHz       Geforce GTX 1060        16GB  RAM       Windows 10 64 bit

Hazyview  (600m above sea level)    --   Nautilus Bay  (Revamp done)  --  Cape Fear  (TGC  adaptation)  --  Aloe Ridge  --  Nahoon Reef GC  --  Chambers Bay 

Abel's Crossing  --  Solitude Links GC


#1538 Kablammo11

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 09:07 AM

Bummer, what happens when you do? I think I've got some of both on my plot?

 

I don't know. But Mike pretty adamantly told us not to mix tree categories on one terrain. You can have two terrains with different tree clans, but not both on one of the same. 

Still, you should be able to plant both kinds side to side in Unity, see how you feel about either one out there - and then make a strategic decision in favour of one. It's mainly the game that seems to have issues with Unity and Speedtree cross-pollination.

That is, as happens to be almost always the case, the microscopic extent of my limited knowledge.

 

 


>>>>>>> Ka-Boom!





• Mulligan Municipal • Willow Heath • Pommeroy • Karen • Five Sisters • Xaxnax Borealis • Aroha • Prison Puttˆ

• The Upchuck   The Shogun  • Black Swan (•)

 

<<<<<


#1539 Mike Jones

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 09:34 AM

Bummer, what happens when you do? I think I've got some of both on my plot?

It's not a problem, I don't remember being 'adamant' about not mixing them. We do it a lot on our courses such as Southampton using a lot of tree creator bushes.

 

Adam Ant 

 

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#1540 Kablammo11

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 09:47 AM

My-Bad.jpeg


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>>>>>>> Ka-Boom!





• Mulligan Municipal • Willow Heath • Pommeroy • Karen • Five Sisters • Xaxnax Borealis • Aroha • Prison Puttˆ

• The Upchuck   The Shogun  • Black Swan (•)

 

<<<<<





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