2551 replies to this topic

[highfade]

I like it a lot!

[RobC]

Looking Good K11

I couldnt find any decent gorse anwhere on the web.

I was thinking they might need to be made out of meshes..especially as there would be a lack of trees on many courses that have gorse bushes

Just a thought

Cheers Rob

[Kablammo11]

Thanks Rob. I agree, meshes would be better, billboards are not enough - the purpose of these shrubs would be to add a bit more vegetal volume to the flat grasslands, and to boost them vertically.

I hate the Unity tree editor about as much as I despise Steam and stupid emoticons, but I might have to turn to it to create my shrubberies... ewww.... Either that or I could beg MJ for a few bush'n'shrubs fbx models. But he hasn't picked up the phone in weeks and now I'm scared to bother him. 

[John Griffin]

K11 - These guys know how you feel...  

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=69iB-xy0u4A

[shimonko]

If you have no shrubs and bushes and don't have OCD, you might consider what I did here - burying trees in the ground so only their crowns show.

For really dense bushes, I found Unity's tree creator insufficient without killing polycounts. The hedges further down that page I made from having an internal rounded box with a leafy texture to give density, then alpha-masked leafy planes sticking out of its surface giving the bushiness - commonly known as 'shelling'.

[Kablammo11]

The Knights Who Say "Ni!" - Brilliant!

 

Shimonko, you suggest a feasible workaround, but burying trees feels wrong to me. I might, though, concoct a few leafy planes into some sort of a roundish cluster and use that, and if all else fails I shall summon forth the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.

[Kablammo11]

Presenting the new collection of Black Swan Cheap Tee Zone Accessoires.

• Self made and brutally functional fences
• small benches stolen from nearby bus stations
• A rusty drum as a waste basket
• An antiquated ball washer that is not being refilled with liquid

 

[NoPutt]

Wonderful K, really like the textured cut on the end

of the bench planks, most would have not bothered.

The old can and ball-washer are fantastic and the fence

rails are minutely detailed. The fence post in the upper

pic doesn't appear to have the same mapping as

the bench legs, just a rookie observation that I'm

sure you knew of.

Great job, and the course looks ma-va-lous.

[Richard]

K-11, as I consistently remind you, I'm not a designer, but yesterday, playing WH with two other testers, I commented on the texture of the tees and the greens. To me they appeared more like carpet rather than grass. BTW, it isn't just WH. We just happened to be playing WH at the time. I've noticed this on all of the courses.

 

My question, knowing your attention to detail is, are those textures stock Unity or CF textures or ones that you created. I vaguely remember some posts regarding 3D textures being an issue, but I can't locate them now. The appearance is more noticeable when those textures met the rough texture.

 

I suspect that it's some Unity or CF limitation. Can you elaborate and educate me. Now I've given you a real challenge!!

[Kablammo11]

Hm... I use self-made textures and have to admit that the WH tee textures stink. I always meant to improve them, yet never came around to do that because there was always something else slightly more urgent to attend to.

It's neither a CF or a Unity thing, I suppose: Tee and green textures are all dead flat, as all the surfaces in the game are. They are built to create an illusion of short grass, by using a shader that simulates the aspect of short blades of grass, but the fact remains that they are essentially a flat plane without any depth in the 3rd dimension.

See the fence further above, the wooden planks? Looks nice and grainy? Well, it's a fake: It's a 2D surface with a 2D texture and and added 2D bump map creating the illusion of a structure. And since it easier to sustain this illusion on irregular and slightly chaotic surfaces, the flat and smooth ones like greens and tees are a much harder sell.

 

 

The 3D grass you mentioned is currently being used by TGC. They basically use a flat texture with lots of mini-billboards of individual grass blades attached to it and sticking out vertically. The effect is much more 3D, though it comes at the price of uniformity. That kind of grass looks, at least for my taste, a bit too perfect, much too repetitive and not nearly dirty and diverse enough, appearing more like somebody matted the land with a layer of astroturf - rather than planting grass. And for this effect, HB studios require graphic cards and drivers that can deal with the DirectX11 technology (don't ask, no idea) - whereas CF and PG intentionally situated themselves in the DirectX9 segment that does not support 3D grass. On the plus side, that means that a lot of players can play PG on slightly outdated rigs today - and at higher FPS.

 

 

In short: It's always a fake, it will never be perfect and tees and greens are the most problematic areas. Just enjoy your golf and suspend your disbelief. As a designer I will never be able to completely encapsulate reality (which is as well), and am limited to trying my best within the current parameters. The best I can hope for is that I succeed in fooling most of the people most of the time.

[Richard]

EDITED:

 

The best I can hope for is that I succeed in fooling most of the people most of the time.

 

Well, damn you do it very well. Keep it up and thanks for an excellent explanation.

[highfade]

I didn't like the pointy rocks at first but with these last two pics it sort of all comes together. Would love to smash a driver off there!

[Kablammo11]

Mooooore pointy rocks coming right up!

 

Returning to Richard the Non-Designers suspiciously knowledgeable texture enquiry, here are the current tee and green textures of the black swan from a player perspective and at full screen res. (In my case that means 2560 x 1440).

It's noticeable that very close to the cam the shader works beautifully, but that with growing distance its details are swallowed up by the pixels of the display.

 

 

 

Also, the ACME Golf Worldwide, a subsidiary of Blammocorp International, has finally delivered the clubhouse a few minutes ago:

 

[mcthommo]

looking good K11- just hope will one day be able to try it along with Willow Heath (only course I play btw) and other courses from your good self and other talented designers unless the powers that be ruin it by not releasing CF and watch as the droves file away somewhere else

[Kablammo11]

Thank you for playing Willow Heath, mcthommo. The road ahead is bumpy, but the price at its end is worth the toil.

[mcthommo]

I hope so K11... I hope so

[Sinewiz]

 

 

Hm... I use self-made textures and have to admit that the WH tee textures stink. I always meant to improve them, yet never came around to do that because there was always something else slightly more urgent to attend to.

It's neither a CF or a Unity thing, I suppose: Tee and green textures are all dead flat, as all the surfaces in the game are. They are built to create an illusion of short grass, by using a shader that simulates the aspect of short blades of grass, but the fact remains that they are essentially a flat plane without any depth in the 3rd dimension.

See the fence further above, the wooden planks? Looks nice and grainy? Well, it's a fake: It's a 2D surface with a 2D texture and and added 2D bump map creating the illusion of a structure. And since it easier to sustain this illusion on irregular and slightly chaotic surfaces, the flat and smooth ones like greens and tees are a much harder sell.

 

 

The 3D grass you mentioned is currently being used by TGC. They basically use a flat texture with lots of mini-billboards of individual grass blades attached to it and sticking out vertically. The effect is much more 3D, though it comes at the price of uniformity. That kind of grass looks, at least for my taste, a bit too perfect, much too repetitive and not nearly dirty and diverse enough, appearing more like somebody matted the land with a layer of astroturf - rather than planting grass. And for this effect, HB studios require graphic cards and drivers that can deal with the DirectX11 technology (don't ask, no idea) - whereas CF and PG intentionally situated themselves in the DirectX9 segment that does not support 3D grass. On the plus side, that means that a lot of players can play PG on slightly outdated rigs today - and at higher FPS.

 

 

In short: It's always a fake, it will never be perfect and tees and greens are the most problematic areas. Just enjoy your golf and suspend your disbelief. As a designer I will never be able to completely encapsulate reality (which is as well), and am limited to trying my best within the current parameters. The best I can hope for is that I succeed in fooling most of the people most of the time.

 

Kab, thanks for this well described explanation. Very helpful. My biggest concern going forward though is that not taking advantage of what DX11 has to offer will continue to fan the flames of those that don't think the game looks quite next-gen. How difficult would it be to create dual versions of a course in which one could take full advantage of DX11 technology for those that have the rigs to handle it?Possible or not?

[Kablammo11]

Sinewiz, I DID put into brackets: "Don't ask, no idea". Sorry, this is way out of my league.

 

But let me add even more fuel to the flames of those who really think that "looking next-gen" is anything more than just having having a mental wank: "So what?" The image below is from Minecraft, which does not look next-gen at all and nevertheless is the best-selling PC game to date.

 

[IanD]

Well, that image and the phrase 'mental wank' certainly made me smile...

[Sinewiz]

Sinewiz, I DID put into brackets: "Don't ask, no idea". Sorry, this is way out of my league.

 

But let me add even more fuel to the flames of those who really think that "looking next-gen" is anything more than just having having a mental wank: "So what?" The image below is from Minecraft, which does not look next-gen at all and nevertheless is the best-selling PC game to date.

 

Difference is the 16 bit images of Minecraft is part of it's "charm". I seriously doubt that anyone would consider a golf course rendered in 16 bit images charming.