2551 replies to this topic

[Brucey Mc]

K11, I was wondering, what does CF leave in the Hierarchy folder when you lay down a hole?  Are there child objects like fairways, greens, etc? I notice some H1 'objects' for example but are they yours or from CF?

Will you have one Courses project with all your assets in and create a new Scene for a new course or will you start each course as a new project?  I have ended up with a few separate projects will i mess about with stuff but potentially I can see the advantages of having one big project will all your assets (well organised though) stored in it.

Questions, questions.

Bruce

[Kablammo11]

Answers, answers:

 

CF puts a "Spline" object into the hierarchy folder. Spline 44, Spline 89, Spline 155 etc.

If that spline encloses another spline, like for instance a fairway encloses a green and a rough mesh encloses a fairway or a bunker, the inner splines are turned into children - the outer spline acts as a parent folder for all the inner splines stored at the inside.

I have renamed all those outer splines into H1-H18 and Tee1 etc for me to see quickly which is which.

 

 

There is, I believe, a small chance that the next iteration of CF will not show any Splines any more in the Hierarchy, to prevent clutter and accidental mishandling. Since once a spline is defined there is nothing else that can be done with it anyway, it just exists without need for further attention, I would be very much in favor of such an improvement.

 

In theory, you can create a new scene for every additional golf course and you should be able to reap all the advantages you have described. Myself, I have opened a new project for each and every new course I have prepped so far and I intend to keep it that way. I couldn't tell you why this is, though, or claim with any competence which of two approaches is better. Looks like I just prefer to keep things separate... 

Also, in the extremely unlikely event of your project file being corrupted or Unity crashing on you, separate projects would limit the potential damage. This just reminds me that I haven't made a project backup for two days and so I must leave you with this to do that. Backups are your friend, either way.

[IanD]

Some good points raised by K11 there... and as this is still a Beta, there is likely to be a fair amount of change between builds, that may ultimately help the user keep things in order. I think the guys @ PP know where we've highlighted these issues, they may be on the radar in the near future for improving. However, as anxious as I know many here will be, they'll likely suffer anything to start their venture creating the courses in their minds. I would urge practical cautions though, as robust as things are within Unity and the CF, a methodical approach to working within the programs can save your very soul lol. I say, because within this pc's hard-drive, is a mountain of information and library items that needs far more time and sorting than I can give it!

 

I'll endure my own errors though, and eventually when the time is right, part ways with items I feel are not required...

 

To continue the theme within the Show & Tell mode though, I will part with some items here, that I've acquired and made use of. Now.. this is the area of fun, all the items I'm likely to show or make available, are not mine. I must underline that... I did not create any of them. They are simply found through many Google searches for 3D items, whether in .FBX format or otherwise. Unity is quite a unique bit of kit, in allowing alot of file format imports and conversions, but editing them within Unity is very limited. So, for those with experience and better modelling software, your talents can be in great need and even more appreciated when achieved.

 

For example.. My course is still something that is evolving. However, the management of the course isn't simply an upkeep I took on either. Since I'm the proprietor, I wanted to ensure the course could pay for itself, and so those crafty money lenders talked me into going for it big-time. The Clubhouse had been simply that, although grand enough for my own wedding to be staged here during the 1998 World Cup, I felt then that if we could have stayed in accomodation here, it would have been a greater wedding. So, when it was put to me to expand what we have, 'improve upon', I went for it...

 

[IanD]

Alot of ground work is still to be done, and whilst the ClubHouse Complex is still undergoing a few refurbs and final changes, it now hopefully shows how old and new can work alongside each other. Once the landscaping is done and we have a pleasing aspect, I can then intro the Golfcart system, whereby any golfer can either drive their own, or be chauffeured around the course. This isn't to say it is an exclusive Course, but certain privileges come from 'staying' with us.

 

[IanD]

Whilst all the above is still happening and the various workmen prepare what we hope will be a Grand occasion in the near future, I have tried to step onto the first few holes and gently take myself away from the mayhem..

 

 

And to bring this to some conclusion, the Golfbag is available for those wanting a 3D object to utilise >

 

 

It may not have the same feel and look, but a 12mb download here can help those begin to learn how they can play with 3D objects.

 

DOWNLOAD LINK - FBX Format 12mb (RAR)

Alternative Link

[Acrilix]

A question to all beta testers. Are you worried that all the added details may affect performance in the game so much that they have to be removed again later? This is one of the major disadvantages of not having a game environment to test in. It may appear fine within Unity, but when the game engine has all the extra work to do things may be different. Have you been given a rough guide as to the maximum 'this and that' you should use when creating a course? I remember some of the dreadful rendering times in Links 2003 before I purchased a fast computer. Some were rendered unplayable unless you had a crossword to do between shots!! 

It's likely to be the frame rates that could take a major hit by the inclusion of these extras in PG.

Things are looking great at the moment, but what if PG can't cope with it all.   

Or am I just being my usual negative self?   

[Kablammo11]

Thanks a lot for your posts, Ian. Your are taking much better care of computer golfers than me, it seems. In my universe, they get a course, no cart paths, one bench (on average) and one ballwasher for each 4 tee zones, whereas you are pampering them with an abundance of extras and all the amenities of modern life.

Aw, you old softie, you..., mollycoddling us thusly! 

 

Acrilix, re: your question: "Are you worried that all the added details may affect performance in the game so much that they have to be removed again later?"

- Yes, I constantly worry about putting in too much. I am amazed that my Mac has not exploded yet.

- I do try to make my 3D models with a minimum of polygons  My tee area walls are 12 polys for each element and most other models are in the low 100s - considering a single tree can easily reach 1000s, they should not really cause too much trouble. Ian's models look a bit more poly-intensive...

- We have been given no guidance as to the max "this and that". They generally don't do guidance at PP.

- I have no idea if the frame rates will take a hit or the loading times will rather deal with it...

- I still worry about that stuff, but barring any practical guidance and hands-on game time, I have decide to pretend that, what the hell, these potential problems are none of my concern. I will not let fear seep into my design decisions and I will cross that bridge when I get there, not sooner. And not when, if.

 

Overall, my own private guesstimation would be that it should work okay even with all the add stuff. Would be nice to hear from PP folks about this, though. Pity they are having an extenden shtum period right now...

[IanD]

Yes, I'll pretty much have to concur with K11 in regards to any possible frame hit scenario. The guys within PP do like the approach of 'surprise us' in regards to what we are currently betaring (is that the worst descriptive word or not).

 

My current approach is trying everything... as most may know, Unity is the most imaginative tool we have at our hands. Everyone can try it, and this whole process is to try and get many more to experience the program and whatever world you wish to create within. As to how it performs, we have to believe there will be limits. When the APCD arrived, no-one really pushed at the beginning, it was tentative stuff and experiences were gained as they are being done now.

 

If my course suffers due to the Clubhouse Complex, (I'm going to have to have shorten that to CC...) then I'll remove it. It's a 3D object that could become 2D if necessary. But isn't that the great thing about having a problem, the opportunity to find a solution! Therefore there are no problems....

[IanD]

In all the mayhem regarding whatever work was currently happening in the CC, I did manage to spot something surreal upon the 9th hole.. I guess the workmen turned the water off..

 

[IanD]

If I may, harping back to the technicals briefly.. this 3D model may not be of any use (I think it might, in a strange world someone envisages lol) to most golf course designs, but at the filesize it is... less than 1mb currently, it shows there is alot of potential to fabricate a world of whatever.... (hmmm Whatever World was my next course name.... given too much away methinks...)

 

 

Download Link

[axe360]

Point count and lag is going to be something big to figure out at first.. We know that in the TW's CA that if a texture goes over 65,000 points, you get transparent textures, thus you see thru the plot of the course while in the game... That is a built in figure, that pertains to anyone building a course with the TW's CA..

The way you fix that, is to optimize and or us a duplicate texture, say, rough 1 and rough 2, if you make a duplicate in the library, then the CA thinks it's 2 different libs, even though they are the same.

 

Now as far as structures and plantings  go, that is a whole new ballgame.. If my sturctures have to high of a poly count, my course will crash, if I use to many structures my course will crash. Easy enough to fix, delete the offending structures... Since many of us don't build structures, you never really know if the architect of said structure, followed a low polycount while building the library.. Stil, you will know when your course crashes.

 

Now for plantings, different ball game their too... Some designers have planted as many as 30 to 40,000 trees and plants on their courses without any lag at all.. However, many folks simply can't play those courses because of to much lag...

All depends on your video card as far as the plantings go...

 

I imagine it will be all trial and error for us once we get a game...

Hope this helps...

[IanD]

Thanks for your additions axe...

 

Final download for today, if anyone has that special coastal course they may be seeking to do some groundwork with..

 

 

Download Link - 2.5mb .FBX

[Brucey Mc]

In all the mayhem regarding whatever work was currently happening in the CC, I did manage to spot something surreal upon the 9th hole.. I guess the workmen turned the water off..

 

Golf porn?

[Kablammo11]

Golf porn indeed. Nice lighthouse - I did have a coastal lighthouse course, but so many are going for it that I won't place a lighthouse in there anymore - I'll think of something else. But back to golf porn, because I blame you, Ian, you and your merry invasion of foreign objects (filthy!), for being responsible for this very phallic addition of mine:

 

 

Grrr.... I really wanted to not post anything, but ya had te go and plant stuff, dintcha? Well, here's my stuff, all 6464 pixels of it for 3.4 MB: An old long wave radio antenna from the 50's. It looms high upon Willow Vale and serves as a landmark...

 

 

...which is kinda cool. They can be seen from far away and help orientate yourself. Also, if placed well, they can double as an aiming help, like here, behind the 2nd green. How cool is it to say to your guest "Just aim for that radio tower..."

 

 

Even the Whos are quite liking it, though they are of three minds about it. And yes, I did tone down the fairway and green colors a bit. But if the Whos like it a bit, is of no matter to me. The question here is: Do you?

 

 

Yes you, the guy reading this. I have no emotional attachment whatsoever to this contraption. Is it genuinely cool or is it way too much and trying too hard to be cool? You tell me, I will abide by the majority opinion. And it's all Ians fault!

[axe360]

I like it, that and telephone lines etc.. Anything that adds realisim,..

[Kablammo11]

Thanks axe. Electric power line pylons would also be an option - and a realistic, visual annoyance on golf courses around the world IRL - but designing those wires would be a major PITA and also add a lot to the poly count...

[axe360]

Well, I never designed libraries but there were several used in TW's and I don't recall that being an issue but as this is a different game and you would know more about it then I. I hear ya... Also like you say, these are just visuals, although some Real courses will demand them, like the big tower on I think it's Firestone?.. The big tower with the golf ball on top....

[Davefevs]

In all the mayhem regarding whatever work was currently happening in the CC, I did manage to spot something surreal upon the 9th hole.. I guess the workmen turned the water off..
 

Good place for a bench eh, K11?

[olazaboll]

Thx for the Lighthousse Ian ,  ive been looking for something like that ,,,,, saved me 5 bucks over at the Asset Store 

[IanD]

Hey no problem... I may have another too, but that's the prettiest.

 

In regards to other 3D objects, I perhaps portrayed them poorly. I haven't spent a thing on any 3D object... they are all out there on this webby-net-thing. I'd love to encourage everyone to go search for things like this.. especially if they think they'll use them in a design or two as well. Even if you don't end up using them, it's a learning curve you will eventually stumble in to. I won't try and detail any sites I've used, but quite simply, search 3D objects.

 

They will be found in various file formats. These often relate to which product they were created or converted to, so don't be afraid to delve deeper into those specific programs and seek 3D objects for them too. Not everything may be found in one search! As for specific file formats, it's too deep to easily explain, but you'll generally get good results from most things. The file format I have lately been collecting are the .MAX ones, as you can download the Trial for 30 days and convert them to .FBX. As we could easily have a huge community develop here, it would be handy for those of us able, to convert things for each other too. If any need something specific over the next 21 days, please PM me and I'll help however I can.