2551 replies to this topic

[Kablammo11]

Well, I probably could have coughed up 45 buck-bucks for the Big Grass Pack at the asset store (yeah, the green letters are a link to it), it would have looked better, no doubt. But since we have some time to spare anyway, I had to go and do everything myself in Photoshop, arrange elements into subgroups and clumps of grass types, defringe and dilate the edges and add an alpha layer... 

Furthermore, nobody touches that fence! 

[IanD]

Shimonko pointed out earlier that it also would work for trees - and there are quite a few trees in your images that do look a little bit cloned, always the same tree multiplied (Happens to me, too). You could rotate a tree and save it as a new prefab to get more diversity, BUT, very big BUT:

- Trees are very costly in the polygon count (1'000, 10'000s of polys) and would increase the workload of your PC. Yet another mouth to feed for your CPU.

- Also, by pre-fabbing a tree, it is no longer subjected to the tree settings of your terrain engine. It won't fade into a billboard anymore, for instance. It won't vary in color.

 

To get the tree situation a little less uniform, I recommend that you:

- Use many different tree models and mix them up

- Plant less trees, arrange them into clumps and clusters and don't be afraid of empty spaces in between

- Set the height and width and color variety parameters for planting very generously - so that every new instance of a planted tree looks different.

- Never use big brushes for tree planting: Begin with planting those trees that are relevant to the golf hole you are designing, those closest to the playing area. Take your time with these "signature" trees - if one random tree does not convince you, remove it and try again and again until you like what you get. Once you have these done, place the scenery trees. I couldn't possibly claim that my own efforts are flawless in this regard, but all the trees on my course, except those in the very far background, have been planted individually, 1 by 1. Stay away from those big brushes.

 

On a note regarding this, thanks for the tips and suggestions. Possibly like you, I'm not 100% settled on the trees we currently have. A great mixture certainly, but knowing the familiar ones are likely to be seen across many courses in time, the art of bunching probably seems a better visual than individual planting.

 

If I may ask, with regards to the Unity way of doing things, how do you find the actual method of planting? The planting screen with so many trees inside the Unity program can become as troubling as the texture collection. I long for organisation and being able to move the previews around to better suit the variations. Having for example Tree15, sitting next to Tree16 isn't necessarily right when you want smaller trees together. Renaming them all seems a better option but long winded and troublesome when referring back again.

 

I did try rotating a few (after cloning) and saving as a prefab only to discover when reloading Unity, they had reverted back to their own initial position. Must revisit that again sometime (got a list of revisits longer than a doctors surgery of patients). Any thoughts as to what I likely did wrong?

[Kablammo11]

Not many thoughts, regarding your last question. Perhaps try to export the rotated tree under a new name and then import it? 

 

Naming your junk properly - and it runs agrainst my nature, too - can be very helpful to organize your work. Easier said than done with 100's or 1000's of individual files and iterations. Still, though loth to abide by it, I think we both know that this is necessary.

 

Another way to reduce the clutter would be to delete everything you know you won't need - the very moment you know you don't need it. You won't delete anything for good, because every file has been copied into your project folder and the originals are somewhere else. So if you have, for example, 7 skyboxes in your folder have decided on just the one, get rid of the other six.

 

To move about easier, never open the big texture overview window with the millions of samples in it. Bring what you are looking at up in the inspector - Click or double click on it in the inspector, and the asset folder will update to show you the assets like textures and materials, sorted neatly by context. When you import new stuff, drag it straight into the correct asset folder so that you can always click your way to it quickly. Not sure if you know what I mean and it takes a bit of getting used to, but it's not that hard to work fluidly in Unity once you've grown more prolific with the interface.

[IanD]

I know what you mean, thanks.

 

Still wish there was an improved way, and I guess it's down to our workings to devise what will sit best in the manner we choose. It's kind of fun, planting a tree several days ago, to suddenly try and think, what was that tree again...? You can't click on it to discover what ID the tree is... unless you planted it by dragging it from the asset window. I'm unable to recall why we can't do it that way... memory thing perhaps (ironic lol)..

 

Almost need to add every tree with some scaling next to it, take a screenshot and catalogue it for reference... wish the wife could use a pc, that would be a great task for the caddy... at least you've got Tara and her crew..!

[Davefevs]

Did you name that bench after me? If so, I'm not worthy \o/ /o\

Those pics look so realistic.

[IanD]

Your grasses K11, keep inspiring me and making me change things for the sake of them lol. However, I'm still seeking that look around a couple of areas of water I have on the front 9...

 

This isn't to say it is finished by any means, and I think I showed the first image below elsewhere, but the two below are slightly improved... 

 

 

 

 

At some point I'm going to have to say enough is enough and move on... in fact I may do that now and return in a few weeks to reflect etc. I find the whole design process something of a circle that never stops spinning.

 

As for the rotation of the trees, it appears to have worked for now... I have successfully rotated, exported, closed down and re-opened and they still exist as planted and rotated. Wondering if my memory was poor, and regarding the issues I had some time back, may not have detailed what i did correctly.. anyway.. circle... spinning..

[Kablammo11]

Dave, youre name is totally worthy of describing any object on which I rest my posterior... Which might sound a bit vulgar, but do consider that Tara, too, might one sweet day plant her lower cheeks on that bench. And since it was you who chose to rather watch Tara from behind, what better way than this than to make your wish come true?

 

Ian, there seems to be a constant and ongoing struggle to get the water's edge just right in computer course design. Many have tried, none have succeeded. This is where textures, terrains, shaders, and objects from the mineral, botanic and acquatic worlds collide, causing chaos and accidental results that do not look good.

With perfection out of reach, I might go for stealth and/or brazenness for my own pond edges: Ignore them as a problem altogether and pretend they're not there.

[IanD]

Totally agree...

 

I do wonder if there is an element where the water can blend with the terrain (in my head it can lol), where be it, the movement of the water allows the terrain to filter through. This could give the effect of lapping, but it would need controlling and I guess the elements involved could cause far more issues.

 

I don't wish to go down the road of placing rocks at the edges to disguise it, nor do I want total planting craziness either. If there is any chance of relflective beauty (again, we live to hope), then full on vegetation vengeance may not sit well.

 

As you said previously, it's not necessarily about what looks right.. it's about how it plays.

[Kablammo11]

There's only so much that can be done with the Unity free version... it basically comes down to choosing either transparency or reflection. You may need, but can't have, both together, and that is that. Feel free to spend more money if you don't like it.

Having said that, your ponds do not look shabby at all already now, so stop torturing yourself   

 

Based on my own experiences I must conclude that MJ is absolutely right when he recommends to carefully design those bits of the plot which will be touched by the players: Tee areas, landing zones in the fairway and green areas. These do matter. The details of a pond shore 120 yds away from the nearest golf action do not. Whenever I plant or place objects, I always view the scene from where a golf player is most likely to be standing.

[IanD]

He is... and they do, agreed. Hence the reason I'm looking to improve upon the images as they could easily come into play. The Tee areas on the two holes in question guarantee one will certainly be seen by the unwary or the tempted.. the other is the view back to the tee once on the green, so the far bank may be viewable to those putting on the other side of the pin.

 

Aah the fun of it.. I've not properly explored transparency either... so that could be interesting later on lol..

 

Anyway enough of this...

[Kablammo11]

Oh no, not enough of this. Not by a long way! More of this!

It was after all you, Ian, who had to go and say this:

 

....add to that, I know it will all be swaying and dancing, making it so damn pretty....

 

So the following is your fault entirely, because you left me no choice with your promise of swaying things: I had to go and sway them, capture them, and post a video of them. So here it is, 3 long and immersive scenes of swaying grasses and trees and undulating waters at the Heath. You really, really might want to activate the HD option before you watch it.

 

https://vimeo.com/91160537

 

Of course, I added the audio of this clip separately, because I'm not yet there in Unity. But for further reference, dear fellow course desginers, note how vital the audio section of your design will be. 

(In theory, after reading the online manual at least, Unity should let you place audio loops quite easily on 1 of 256 available channels, and you can define their order, their radius, fade-in ratio etc. Should be a little bit like the JN5 course creator of old, where you could drag and drop birds and stuff straight into your design.)

[FixAmer1st]

I have been following all of these threads very closely. I can not beleive what you guys are doing. I just can't wait to play on your courses when PP is released.

Are any of your courses playable yet?

Jerry

[Kablammo11]

MJ played the 1st hole of the Heath (he said) when we were trying to figure out if the project could be salvaged into the next iteration of CF. Apparently it could. So he told me he had deflowered it with a par - and broke my heart. Luckily, that's the only hole I had planted a tee and a pin on by then, so he couldn't do more deflowering... Well, I suppose if somebody deserves the privilege of the first night around here, that would have to be squire Mike.

That was about six weeks ago. 

[Davefevs]

K11 - the golf courses and your wordsmithery (is that a word) are on a 'par' with even other.

I love thus thread for the pics (from all of you CFers - that's not a swear word) and the 'stories'.

KUTGW....may I be the first to shoot a bogie!!

[IanD]

Excellent video K11... my pet birds were suddenly infuriated by the sounds coming through the speakers, so things certainly got lively here when I saw all that swaying and dancing... nicely put together and great to watch.

 

Jerry, mine is far from playable at the moment. Alot of this is down to my lack of wanting to go further than a few holes. Back in the early APCD days, i recall courses being designed and designers improving as they completed more holes. Those early reviews I wrote at Links Corner reveal the older courses changing hole by hole as a new trick was learnt and added. My first hole is playable and has the variable tees and pin positions. It's the other things that I want to ensure remain consistent through the course that I'm trialling and erroring far more than I perhaps should.

 

Unless the course requires it, it's a little like a recipe and cookery. If you have all the ingredients, you can make the cake. However if you decide to add cherries after it's cooking, you can only add them onto the top of the cake and make it look pretty. Personally, I'm trying to ensure there are plenty of cherries in every slice that's cut..

 

Crumbs...got to be the worst analogy I've come up with yet...

[JRD]

My first go with Unity Engine and I am pleasantly surprised how easy it was to create this scene . Only took me 20 minutes.

 

Attached Files

•  Mountain-scene.jpg   92.92KB   6 downloads

[Kablammo11]

That's a good looking first go, JRD. From zero to this in 20 minutes is very impressive! KUPTGW.

[JRD]

Thanks k11... I took your advice and while waiting for CF I watched some beginner youtube vids on unity and thought good idea to get acquainted with unity till cf is ready. Should be a breeze now since all I will have to do is import height data and satellite image and then trace the fairways and greens. I do design 3d golf courses for a living and will be getting a commercial license and this designing in full 3d instead of designing from a top down will be simple for me now.

[IanD]

Yeah, good to see more developing their skills within Unity whilst awaiting the CF. Nice mountain image, and I see you experimenting with the limited trees available. Hopefully, when CF releases, they cater for further enhancements regarding planting. I'm currently playing with planting on a few holes now, and have an eye on something in the Asset Store that I'm trying... I'm really trying.... to avoid purchasing just yet...  I'm not very convincing am I...

 

Anyway, hope to see more from you whilst you continue to learn...!

[Kablammo11]

Meanwhile, back at the homestead...

 

My development cycle has reached a point where everything is more or less in place and where I can start getting cute with stuff for no particular reason at all.

For instance, where you see this lush meadow now, 60 minutes ago there used to be the tee zone of the 16th hole.

 

 

But I decided to bring it back some 45 yards and to tighten the trees around it.

 

 

And now, instead of a slope like a wall encircling the 15th green (this is how it was before, old image):...

 

 

I get some open space with the new tee in the prolongued axis of the 15th green, making this particular corner look a little less cramped and claustrophobic.

 

 

T'is the time to wander around the plot and see what else might spring to mind...