2551 replies to this topic

[bortimus]

Nice K11.  It's always interesting to see how different designers handle transition areas.  Beautiful.     

[M Rose]

It begins.

 

[highfade]

Yes K11, love the texture work. 

 

Good to see the gravel paths, very nice,  as I recall you're not a fan of terrain texture paths.  The only thing that doesn't quite fit for me is the yellow/orange bunker texture. Looking at the landscape I feel a more grayish colour would be more fitting?

[garynorman]

Nice new projects. Thanks for chipping in, guys.

Meanwhile, back at the secret country retreat for international diplomacy that is the Peacemaker, I would like to waste your time with talking (at length), about one particular area of course design that has kept annoying me ever since the beginning. As you don't know, I always define a sore spot or promising new aspect, something that I feel I need to work on, to examine, tackle and improve with my latest project. And for the Peacemaker that is the Tee Zone Factor. Let me explain by showing you the following atrocity:

 

 

And this is what irks me - there is NOTHING at all happening between the tee zone and the beginning of the fairway in the distance. Maybe a lazy swirl of terrain texture and that's it. It's an utterly boring and dreadfully empty piece of real estate. Neither does it give an idea of space and dimensions, nor does it instil the player with any sort of fear.

 

 

So my contention is that the strip of ground from green to the next tee and from there to the next fairway is "forgotten land", taken for granted and insufficiently regarded by me so far. As the above image shows, I have initiated to include some direly necessary counter measures into my workflow in order to rectify my past sloppiness.

 

 

Nr. 1: A network of footpaths. Not just one, but several of them, surrounding the tee zones and cutting across the terrain, linking each bit. For the peacemaker I use gravel as a material. These paths look great in the top view as well - just check out Troon to see what I mean.

 

 

2. Some minor terrain sculpting. I elevate low mounds between the footpaths or lower them into the terrain. This creates are rather irregular and variable terrain in front of the tees. No longer will golfers tee off over flat ground, the bit between them and the next fairway has come to life.

 

 

3. This done, the newly created tee-to-fairway excitement can be enhanced by planting some grasses. They will no longer be placed on some flat ground, but instead espouse the contours and increase the sense of bumpiness ahead of the green. Not much, it's almost not noticeable in normal player view, but it is there...

 

 

...but in panoramic view it can come across as quite dramatic.

 

 

So look again at the tee in the first image. Then at the situation around the tee in the following image. Which one is more fun and slightly more worrying to tee off from, you think? Yeah...

 

 

And once we get volumetric grass, this will look totally different. Ah well, for now this is what the Peacemaker will be like...

 

Looking really good

 

I often think that it's the little details rather than the bigger things that make a course.

[garynorman]

It begins.

 

 

Looking forward to seeing this (especially the 7th)

[Brucey Mc]

Has come out lovely that terrain Matt!

[Kablammo11]

Yes K11, love the texture work. 

 

Good to see the gravel paths, very nice,  as I recall you're not a fan of terrain texture paths.  The only thing that doesn't quite fit for me is the yellow/orange bunker texture. Looking at the landscape I feel a more grayish colour would be more fitting?

 

I'm a bit more a fan of gravel paths than of those easy roads cart paths that look so awfully manmade and intrusive (in fairness to designers: Both in computer games and in reality). I used caddy carts for the last four years of my real golf career - sometimes because the club would not allow walkers altogether - and am very appreciative of the comforts they offer, but those ribbons of asphalts are an eyesore I can do nicely without.

The reason why gravel paths are not a pleasant thing to do - to behold, I hope that they are - is due to Unity and its terrain brushes, requiring me to use a very small brush and work my way forward inch by inch. Pure tedium.

 

Bunkers could do with a little bit of less saturation. They looked right while I was doing the meshwork, but now with all the planting etc they may be a tad too gaudy. You know as well as me that course design is neither a linear nor a predictable process. Stuff happens during the work. I will not decide either way before seeing them in the next game build - Unity can be deceptive in this regard. I will record one hole and post it here. Probably the 6th, we'll see.

[Dropzone73]

It begins.

 

Your planting and design is always good.

 

I'm more worried about your grass textures and everything looking like copy pasted colums and rows. Look closely at Gary's and High Fade's textures from green to rough. If you can learn from then, your courses will definitely look outstanding.

 

Also I would avoid bad quality / low resolution samples of long grass. It looks very unnatural.

 

Don't take this feedback in a wrong way. All your work is great and I am no one to criticize it, but I see so much more potential in your work.

[Kablammo11]

Drop, you are quoting Matt yet seem to mean me? I don't see any plants in his image... And if you mean Matt, then those rows and columns on green and fairway clearly are intentional mow patterns. As for low res samples of long grass, Matt surely must be innocent - whereas I am not, granted.

A lot could be better, and I am actually more aware than most of what could and should be better. Basically: Everything. But there are trade-offs to make and nasty compromises to accept. Nothing to do with the incompetence of a designer, but with the undertaking of creating a fully 3D plot with all the trimmings - using almost-free ware and relying on basic skills. The result sure ain't Dreamworks, I am aware of that.

[M Rose]

Your planting and design is always good.

 

I'm more worried about your grass textures and everything looking like copy pasted colums and rows. Look closely at Gary's and High Fade's textures from green to rough. If you can learn from then, your courses will definitely look outstanding.

 

Also I would avoid bad quality / low resolution samples of long grass. It looks very unnatural.

 

Don't take this feedback in a wrong way. All your work is great and I am no one to criticize it, but I see so much more potential in your work.

 

I don't even know how to respond to this.

[NoPutt]

Maybe it was me that's being referred to...

It's always a problem getting quality grass

from your local dealer, so I've started growing my own!

[Dazmaniac]

Your planting and design is always good.

 

I'm more worried about your grass textures and everything looking like copy pasted colums and rows. Look closely at Gary's and High Fade's textures from green to rough. If you can learn from then, your courses will definitely look outstanding.

 

Also I would avoid bad quality / low resolution samples of long grass. It looks very unnatural.

 

Don't take this feedback in a wrong way. All your work is great and I am no one to criticize it, but I see so much more potential in your work.

 

You managed to say all that about an early alpha preview of Hole #8 at Pebble Beach (which has no planting visible).

 

You sure you have quoted the right post?

[M Rose]

I'd have thought it was obvious this was a really early, basic screenshot.

 

I've done no planting, no elevation work apart from leveling the tees, and have barely scratched the surface on a lot of the design and texture work. I literally started this less than two days ago.

 

It is the lines? As K11 said, those are mow lines, and those are intentional. I happen to like the look of them, and I also think that they hide tiling better, as well as helping to overcome the carpet / astroturf effect that I see on a lot of courses.

 

In most photos that I see of Pebble Beach, mow lines are fairly prominent:

 

 

 

So yeah..... all I can think of is that they thought somehow this was something close to release, otherwise those are some rather odd and confusing things to say considering how nascent this project is. The whole point was to just give everybody a little tease...

[M Rose]

Has come out lovely that terrain Matt!

 

It worked out beautifully....  I hardly have had to do any pre-production sort of work apart from some stuff around the buildings and a few bumps in the ocean. I've had to deal with much more in my APCD conversions.

[jt83]

Matt I know Royal Melbourne is on your to-do list but looking at that preview, if you're ever going to do another Aussie course I'd love to see you tackle NSW.  Similar terrain, just the other side of the Pacific!

[Dropzone73]

You managed to say all that about an early alpha preview of Hole #8 at Pebble Beach (which has no planting visible).

 

You sure you have quoted the right post?

I saw in that picture the same green and rough textures as in Matthew's earlier designs, nothing more. From his previous desings I know his planting and desingning is awesome. Only those textures and lack of variation in their colours is a little weakness.

 

I hoped that my comment wouldn't heve been taken the wrong way, but what can you do. I'm sorry if my opinion hurt some one.

 

I honestly like Matthew's work very much. It only could be perfect, if a little attention to detail in textures would take place. Keep up the good work though!

 

PS. I understand mov lines and it's not that. I think it's the lack of colour variation in textures and the same pattern in every box (for example compare with High Fade's last course's greens). Maybe it's just me that don't like the rough texture. It's just an opinion that don't need to be taken too seriously.

[DoGgs]

Par 5 tenth at lowland fens

[Kablammo11]

Nice to see you've retired from your retirement, DoGgz...

[DoGgs]

LOl K yer cheers... was kinda burnt out, don't know how you guys keep churning them out at the quality you do, I was planning to slow burn this but i'm up to 13 holes already.  I think my courses are there to be picked apart up close and personal, i don't apply the high attention to detail of most designers here, but i get away with it to a certain degree, patience is def not one of my virtues. 

[Dazmaniac]

I saw in that picture the same green and rough textures as in Matthew's earlier designs, nothing more. From his previous desings I know his planting and desingning is awesome. Only those textures and lack of variation in their colours is a little weakness.

I hoped that my comment wouldn't heve been taken the wrong way, but what can you do. I'm sorry if my opinion hurt some one.

I honestly like Matthew's work very much. It only could be perfect, if a little attention to detail in textures would take place. Keep up the good work though!

PS. I understand mov lines and it's not that. I think it's the lack of colour variation in textures and the same pattern in every box (for example compare with High Fade's last course's greens). Maybe it's just me that don't like the rough texture. It's just an opinion that don't need to be taken too seriously.

You do realise he just applied some textures to give us a screenie of something that is in very early alpha.

I'm sure by the time we see his final release it may have gone through several texture renderings.