412 replies to this topic

[ed dawson]

So are you actually saying that without a season pass, I having no interest at the moment in playing online or entering tournaments, will not be able to play courses which have been designed by CF users and freely made available to the PG community.  If I design and create a course myself, will I be able to play this???

[bortimus]

There's going to be a lot of people who outright reject the idea of paying anything additional per month out of principle.  You wouldn't retain those players even if you reduced the price of the season pass.  

 

For players who are on the fence (for budgetary reasons or otherwise), I can understand that right now there isn't much perceived value for the season pass.  

 

Current perception is heavily influenced by the lack of anything except solid gameplay and a small number of courses.

 

Outside of the people who have already decided one way or another, I think as the benefits of the season pass become more tangible we might see some opinions change.  

[Drgnslyr221]

I don't have a problem with the season pass idea. The problem I have is not being able to play user made courses without it. I'm going to buy it no matter what because of the tourneys and discounted courses from Jones and Co. I think they should reconsider the user created course part.

[M Rose]

After much thought, I would be more in favor of the a la carte model as I have zero interest in tournaments, country clubs, etc; however I have an enormous interest in user DLC... I am far, far more likely to make one-off purchases for permanent content than I am for temporary / timed content. But I'm also hoping to produce and contribute enough content to keep my personal costs low anyway.

 

As I designer I'm kind of mixed on what I want from this.... it'd be really nice to do this with some financial compensation in mind, considering the stupid amount of time I spend doing it, but I also believe strongly in sharing what I have done. I think ideally I'd like to offer both free content and P4P.... the trick would be finding the balance so the free content doesn't undermine the pay content but the non-subscriber still gets a bone thrown to them once in awhile. I don't really know where that balance is and there's nothing that is going to make everybody happy.

 

The game is great, and Course Forge is great. They have produced a terrific product. I think the growing pains of finding the right business model will be worth going through.

 

I worked in retail for 10 years and if I learned anything, I learned that it is absolutely impossible to make everybody happy.

[Drgnslyr221]

Is any of this final?

[Crow357]

I worked in retail for 10 years and if I learned anything, I learned that it is absolutely impossible to make everybody happy.

It ain't just retail.  Working with the public sucks the life out of you.

[Acrilix]

Tying user courses to the season pass will undoubtedly sell PP far more passes than without this restriction. Unfortunately though, IMO it will completely kill any chance of this game reaching a mass market, the potential for community growth will be stifled, and it will simply tick along, as Links did these last few years, with a few hundred stalwart players.

[sirputterman]

That's a great offer thanks. I hope it comes about. There can't be any future in designers scattering courses here, there and everwhere.

I would hope that PP would have a central location for designers to upload and members to download courses. Someplace not tied into any club or group. Nothing against the group that offered to host courses as I have no clue what they are all about. It would just be simpler and quicker especially for new members to find the content if it is in one easy to find location. Heck perhaps a button could be added in the lobby that would take you directly to the course download location. Want a game on a new course? Just click the button and there you are, all courses available to download in one spot for your quickest enjoyment.      

[Richard]

Not sure where you got you original quote from but of course we do not own any courses created by the community with CourseForge. There is a license agreement with CourseForge though which means third party content created with is can't be sold without our permission.

We have no plans to charge for user made courses but a season pass unlocks a feature in PerfectGolf in a way that allows them to be played in the game. This is entirely different than selling them which we have no desire to do. 

 

Well, I can agree with this approach. The user designed courses are free but access to play them requires a pass. That works for me. I have no issue with PP creating a revenue source as long as it's reasonable and fair for all.

[mebby]

So that's why there's more to a season pass than just playing user made courses. Plus it's the price of one Big Mac a month. Seems pretty freaking cheap, you get CF for free and never have to buy PG again.

But, hey. To each his own.

Yea, I'm completely in your camp. $5/month is squarely in the impulse buy category and I like the other offerings... Particularly the country club concept.

Not to mention it helps create a sustainable financial model for a game that we all enjoy.

[Nukelaloosh44]

The easiest and simplest option is the $4.99 a month. You get everything.
If you decide to not pay after doing so for several months, you can't access Tournaments and play those user designed courses. Simple. Pay next month when more user courses release, and game on again... all you miss is the time you didn't pay for.

Forgive me if this question has already been answered but lets say that I subscribe to the 4.99 fee for one year and download 100+ user created courses over that time period..if I decide to cancel the subscription, will I lose the ability to play the user created courses that were downloaded? I sincerely hope not. Sure, I can understand losing the ability to play in tournaments and the like but Not being able to play courses that were "paid" for through the subscription doesn't sit well with me at all.

[sirputterman]

Tying user courses to the season pass will undoubtedly sell PP far more passes than without this restriction. Unfortunately though, IMO it will completely kill any chance of this game reaching a mass market, the potential for community growth will be stifled, and it will simply tick along, as Links did these last few years, with a few hundred stalwart players.

I tend to agree with you but that is something PP has to decide. It's a big gamble and one that could pay well for them or it could all but kill the game. Again though it is there game so they do have the right to do what they think will work. Only time will tell if they made the right choice of how to market the game or not. 

As I have said I have absolutely zero issue paying for licensed courses made by PP. User made courses I'm sure will be both good and bad but paying for them just doesn't sit right with me.

I have a question though. I understand that the licensed courses will be available for purchase even if you do not get the season pass, but does the season pass only apply to getting the user made courses or does that also include licensed courses too? If it was all inclusive both licensed and user made for 4.99 then that would be a little easier to justify.

[mebby]

Well, I can agree with this approach. The user designed courses are free but access to them requires a pass. That works for me. I have no issue with PP creating a revenue source as long as it's reasonable and fair for all.

While I don't have a issue with it at all... I don't get the distinction between having access to user created content but no the right to play it unless you pay.

To me, it's just semantics. What good is storing a course on your hard drive if you can't play it? That's like McDonalds saying their Big Mac's are free but with a small print disclaimer saying... "but you have to pay $5 for the right to eat it."

Just feels dodgy to me to state things this way. Just call it what it is.

[ed dawson]

I can't grasp this.  I have purchased PG.  I am, as a result, going to be given CF.  If I design and create a course using this 'free' software, I will need to pay $4.99 monthly in order to play it .  I appreciate the desire for income but this seems to go against the grain of fair-play.

[LeazesNDR]

Tying user courses to the season pass will undoubtedly sell PP far more passes than without this restriction. Unfortunately though, IMO it will completely kill any chance of this game reaching a mass market, the potential for community growth will be stifled, and it will simply tick along, as Links did these last few years, with a few hundred stalwart players.

Got to agree with this. I talked my mate into buying this game a couple of months back, just told him about the season pass thingy and his reply was "f*ck that".
I know PP have to raise money but this is going to create a divide before the game even gets off the ground and if the bad publicity for this starts to gather momentum on Steam, then Steam could ultimately be the undoing of this game. (very positive user reviews on there can change very quickly).
As I've said before, I will be in for the ride even though I don't do online gaming, but as Acrilix says, I might be one of only a few hundred rather than one of many thousands.

I sincerely hope PP don't balls things up for themselves as Perfect Golf really is the mutts nutts of golf games as far as I'm concerned.

[clubcaptain]

Not sure where you got you original quote from but of course we do not own any courses created by the community with CourseForge. There is a license agreement with CourseForge though which means third party content created with is can't be sold without our permission.

We have no plans to charge for user made courses but a season pass unlocks a feature in PerfectGolf in a way that allows them to be played in the game. This is entirely different than selling them which we have no desire to do. 

That's exactly how it should work. Thanks for confirming.

[Mike Jones]

I can't grasp this.  I have purchased PG.  I am, as a result, going to be given CF.  If I design and create a course using this 'free' software, I will need to pay $4.99 monthly in order to play it .  I appreciate the desire for income but this seems to go against the grain of fair-play.

 

There will be the opportunity to earn free passes. Unfortunately It's human nature to focus on the negative sometimes and ignore the positives.

 

If you like to create courses and share them with the community then you can ask us to take a look at it and if we think it's a good one that people will enjoy playing we will give you a couple of months season pass for free so you can ahead and play and design for free.

 

I think that's pretty fair and it's a nice reward for doing something that you enjoy anyway.

[Griz891]

If you have to buy a monthly pass to play "FREE" created courses, well then you just took the free equation right out of the picture. If you want to sell these monthly passes then it should be strictly for licensed courses only along with your online tournament or country club play. If I created a course for people to play it just wouldn't stand well with me knowing that in order for them to play it there going to have to pay some money. Most people who design courses are doing it for a fun hobby and the enjoyment that other people get out of playing it. I really think that created courses should be free to whoever has purchased the game. I'm sorry, I just think this whole idea is the wrong way to go about it. When I first come on the forums yesterday and started reading all this monthly pass stuff, my 1st thoughts was " Oh hell no" and I'm still at limbo about it. Especially the player created courses, that's the part that bugs me the most.

[clubcaptain]

I would hope that PP would have a central location for designers to upload and members to download courses. Someplace not tied into any club or group. Nothing against the group that offered to host courses as I have no clue what they are all about. It would just be simpler and quicker especially for new members to find the content if it is in one easy to find location. Heck perhaps a button could be added in the lobby that would take you directly to the course download location. Want a game on a new course? Just click the button and there you are, all courses available to download in one spot for your quickest enjoyment.      

That is a great way to make courses available but AFAIK only OGT have come forward on this.

There;s nothing wrong with a third party course download site. "Remember The Course Depot"?

[clubcaptain]

There will be the opportunity to earn free passes. Unfortunately It's human nature to focus on the negative sometimes and ignore the positives.

 

If you like to create courses and share them with the community then you can ask us to take a look at it and if we think it's a good one that people will enjoy playing we will give you a couple of months season pass for free so you can ahead and play and design for free.

 

I think that's pretty fair and it's a nice reward for doing something that you enjoy anyway.

This seems like a new direction unless I've misread it. Now a designer has to impress someone or a panel that his course is "a good one".

I'm sure this will disqualify a good many people from earning a temporary free pass so that benefit would appear to only apply to a minority. This is not knocking any designer because I know from experience that everyone who creates a course puts their heart and soul into it. However, as soon as a qualification rule is introduced it's a fact of life that the "good" courses as  judged will be in the minority. If the "good" courses were in the majority you might as well give everyone a temporary free pass.