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Season pass - paying to play user made courses ?


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#21 Mike Jones

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:39 PM

There are many ways to create revenue in order to carry on making the games people like to play - for instance you could sell a game on multiple platforms and then charge for various library packs and tournament/season modes. EA sports' revenue model was to create a new game every year using the same base engine but usually with the same courses and a couple of new features. Lots of people bought it every year even though IMO it wasn't great value unless you wanted something in the new package.  Perhaps like us you could choose a different way of doing things.

 

When we originally came up with the concept for PerfectGolf serveral years ago we had lofty goals and a long term vision. There were lessons to be learned from the past however as over the years there have been several golf games which also had course design programs, I'm thinking APCD for links and course design programs for GBC, Tiger Woods, PGA golf, CPG etc but one thing that they had in common was that they were financially unviable in the long term and were all eventually dropped. In short their financial model was unsustainable.

 
PerfectGolf and CourseForge were born with the goal of creating a realistic and sustainable environment in which to not only play a great golf game but to join and be part of a community to play and create their own content to share and enjoy. Our job has been to put together the framework to make it happen. Players who contribute to our vision with their great courses and passion for their country clubs and tournament play will be rewarded with free season passes.
 
 
Just in the last couple of months, the people helping beta test and develop CourseForge have created over 30 wonderful courses, some of them extremely lifelike recreations of real courses while others although fictional courses, look and play like the best real courses you can imagine. The lifeblood of any golf game is an abundnace of quality courses and there will be many to play over the coming months both real and fictional, some licensed and some not and which ones you choose to play will be entirely up to you. The courses people make with CF won't be distributed by us, they can be shared freely around the community however the designer wants, we won't dictate to them how their courses should be distributed although we will certainly try and help is asked.
 
 
Being a season pass holder will enable players to play these community created courses with PerfectGolf, create and join country clubs, play a vast array of tournaments on different courses and eventually compete in a virtual offline/online career in the future. We have already seen third party tours popping up like the OGT with tournaments and even entire seasons and order of merits. Non of this is possible to sustain without a solid base to start from.
 
 
If this doesn't seem like something you are interested in you will still be able to play PerfectGolf as it is and with the improvements still to come. We will have more free courses for you as well as the option to purchase the licensed courses on a standalone basis to play whenever you want, season pass or no season pass. The entry cost into the PG world for all the early access supporters was very low, I'm sure you would agree.
 
 
I sincerely hope you understand our ideas and support us in our efforts and help us to continually develop PerfectGolf and it's community far into the future.

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#22 gravedodger

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:45 PM

I like free courses just like the next person but I don't mind paying for quality courses regardless of who builds them ... I have great hopes and faith that we'll get a really strong offering from some of the best course designers and some new ones that emerge once they get their hands on CF, the future's looking good for us PG golfers I reckon :)

Really looking forward to playing with CF myself actually.



#23 fungolfer

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:49 PM

AMEN!!


Who cares...


#24 DoGgs

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:49 PM

Lol mike you have prob just sold me the season pass, i guess it helps sustain the game, and it,s a worthy title to support...And yes  E.A churn out the same game  every year and charge silly money for what is basically an updated license, people have to remove TGC from the equation here because that game although enjoyable enough, is not in the same league as PG.


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#25 Crusher

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:49 PM

I said it before and I will say it again.

 

A company must charge an annual fee to keep developing a game and supplying players with options. I agreed to pay at least $100.00 a year to play this game as long as I had access to every course ever created. The amount of $100.00 IMHO should cover it all.  Yes there will be monetary modifications that will not meet my expectations. Hey! That's life! The income model changes as a company grows. Some things are tried and discarded and others are fine-tuned because they create the "real revenue".  I accept whatever will come except for one thing - paying for a course directly from another member. Not gonna happen. No way, no how.

 

The old argument was the Links LS and Tiger Woods CD/DVD series where everything came with the initial installation in terms of club choices and clothing. Later on, people got really good with the animations in Links and you could pay for a customized animation.

 

Links custom course designers began to charge for courses. I believe the first person was Mike Jones of PP/PG.

 

The best things PG can do is not create tournaments with paid for courses, not yet any way.

 

Edit: Oh yes! Expect to pay at least $100.00 a year whether it be a "cover all" subscription or to pay for options. The money needs to be made by Perfect Parallel.  SERIOUSLY!  They (PP) need to become financially solvent. If you don't understand that term than you don't understand how a business becomes successful.


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#26 yesrushdt

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 09:23 PM

Being a season pass holder will enable players to play these community created courses with PerfectGolf

 

You mentioned that the community created courses can be shared freely, however reading the above would lead one to believe that a pass is still needed to be able to play them on PerfectGolf.  Is this correct or not?  Please clear this up when you get a chance. 



#27 slouis

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 09:28 PM

I still have TW 08 installed on my desktop and have about 30 courses that I downloaded from the Course Downloads site.  I have backed up these courses on to flash drives so that when I get a new pc I can install them again if I want.

If I were to pay for a licensed course or downloaded a course from a designer for free I would still have to get a season pass to be able to play the free course?  Is my understanding correct?

Secondly, I can't really back up these courses or in fact Perfect Golf on to DVD or flash drive so when I buy a new pc I would have to purchase PG again and re-subscribe for a season pass.  Is that correct as well?

Where I am getting confused is because I was never on Steam until I bought PG is that I have the DVD ROM of TW 08 and as mentioned about 30 courses saved on flash drives so I could reinstall it on any computer I wanted whereas for PG the game files and course files are only accessible through Steam whether it is online or offline?

Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.


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#28 trailblazergolf

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 09:35 PM

understand what ya saying daz !!!--just hopeing it all happens before I pass into eternity--lol---I'm pushing 80 now and love this game ----maybe I can take it with me ??---lol :)


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#29 Dazmaniac

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 09:40 PM

Slouis.

 

I'll leave Mike to answer the season pass questions.

 

Regards PG, that game is yours and you don't have to buy it again, even if you buy a new PC. Any games in you buy in Steam are linked to your Steam account. Get a new PC, install Steam, just make sure you log in to your existing account and all your games are there - uninstalled but in your library, you just need to re-install them. I would also think that any content that was bought in PG would also still be accessible, seeing as you had already purchased it.

 

In Steam, I often uninstall games when not playing them, but they are always in my library should I wish to revisit them, no additional purchase required.



#30 Mike Jones

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 10:39 PM

You mentioned that the community created courses can be shared freely, however reading the above would lead one to believe that a pass is still needed to be able to play them on PerfectGolf.  Is this correct or not?  Please clear this up when you get a chance. 

 

 

The designers of courses can share them around however they please, to everyone or just to friends or to country club members etc - it's their choice. All the courses will just have to be dropped into the PG/courses directory. You won't be able to play them though unless you have a season pass but as mentioned before there are ways to get a season pass without paying, just depends on how much you like the game and want to contribute to the community and then everyone benefits.

 

Licenses courses sold by us will not need a season pass in order to play them.



#31 Acrilix

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 10:50 PM

This is terrible news. I won't even be able to play my own designs with my brother and mate unless they buy a pass each month. I guess that's the end of my designing before I've even begun, and I just installed Unity 5 a couple of days ago. :(


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#32 yesrushdt

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 11:17 PM

The designers of courses can share them around however they please, to everyone or just to friends or to country club members etc - it's their choice. All the courses will just have to be dropped into the PG/courses directory. You won't be able to play them though unless you have a season pass but as mentioned before there are ways to get a season pass without paying, just depends on how much you like the game and want to contribute to the community and then everyone benefits.

 

Licenses courses sold by us will not need a season pass in order to play them.

 

You really have to rethink this strategy if you expect to even come close to competing with other golf games like RM PGA Tour and TGC.  What new (and current for that matter) customer would want to spend $19.99/$39.99 for the game plus $59.99 extra per year to play community designed courses?  What good is course forge when a good percentage of the customers won't be able to play the user designs?  Terrible news indeed for the customers and community designers alike.


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#33 cherab2013

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 11:33 PM

Not sure i understand, you want to charge us to access content we the users create? No thanks

Development of the game should continue in the background after release.  Year later you present the option of a season pass which adds x features to the game permanently, over the course of a year (crowds, commentary, new animations, courses, entry in special tournaments etc.etc.)  === see Elite Dangerous model

If people do not want it you get nothing else out of them, they continue playing with original features.  You have to make it worth another investment. 

Creating a monetary barrier to player created content pushes players and equally content creators away



#34 Mike Jones

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 11:34 PM

You really have to rethink this strategy if you expect to even come close to competing with other golf games like RM PGA Tour and TGC.  What new (and current for that matter) customer would want to spend $19.99/$39.99 for the game plus $59.99 extra per year to play community designed courses?  What good is course forge when a good percentage of the customers won't be able to play the user designs?  Terrible news indeed for the customers and community designers alike.

I don't see that we have to compete with the likes of RM and EA sports - They don't have any user made courses at all. TGC has thousands of user made courses some of them very nice but they're offering an arcade type experience with very limited modes of play. As mentiuoned in my post above, those games have a different revenue model but you still pay one way or another. 

 

You cannot compare CourseForge with other course design programs, it's extremelly powerful and used by Nicklaus design every day in the creation of their courses. If it we had decided to make it a commercial product it would have cost $1000's per license but instead we are releasing it for free.



#35 RobV

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 11:37 PM

What kind of business model is this?  I can't play community made courses because it depends on how much I like the game??  What?   Sorry to say, but that is just well... weird...  I play video games when I have FREE time (which is limited) and maybe I can't contribute to the PG community as often as others or what you are describing in your last post.   Ok, I like the game.. do I get a season pass now?  

 

Sorry, but this overall season pass concept is just strange to me...  I would rather you outright charge for Course Forge, which I would gladly buy, than this whole season pass to play user made courses..  and oh yeah, not everyone is a course designer either and don't care about creating courses...  so disappointing.  


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#36 Mike Jones

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 11:42 PM

What kind of business model is this?  I can't play community made courses because it depends on how much I like the game??  

 

You will have to re-phrase that because I have no idea what you mean - if you're referring to my above post perhaps I could have phrased it better myself, if you like the game enough to be a part of its community and contribute in you own way why should you not be rewarded?  If you don't have time or the inclination no one will be forcing you to do anything you can continue to play the game as it develops.

 

Designing courses is fun, people do it because they like it but it's nice to be rewarded all the same don't you think?



#37 Crow357

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 11:43 PM

So that's why there's more to a season pass than just playing user made courses.  Plus it's the price of one Big Mac a month.  Seems pretty freaking cheap, you get CF for free and never have to buy PG again.

 

But, hey.  To each his own.


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#38 RobV

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 11:44 PM

You won't be able to play them though unless you have a season pass but as mentioned before there are ways to get a season pass without paying, just depends on how much you like the game and want to contribute to the community and then everyone benefits.

 

 

Sure.. you wrote this..  maybe you can explain what you meant by this?    That's where I got if from...

 

Oh and nevermind about charging for CF... if its thousands of dollars then I definitely won't be buying it.. hahaha



#39 Mike Jones

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 11:51 PM

Sure.. you wrote this..  maybe you can explain what you meant by this?    That's where I got if from...

 

Oh and nevermind about charging for CF... if its thousands of dollars then I definitely won't be buying it.. hahaha

I guess you only read half way down my post...



#40 RobV

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 11:56 PM

You will have to re-phrase that because I have no idea what you mean - if you're referring to my above post perhaps I could have phrased it better myself, if you like the game enough to be a part of its community and contribute in you own way why should you not be rewarded?  If you don't have time or the inclination no one will be forcing you to do anything you can continue to play the game as it develops.

 

Designing courses is fun, people do it because they like it but it's nice to be rewarded all the same don't you think?

Of course designing courses is fun... but uh, not everyone has a knack for it nor are they ambitious enough...Some rather just play the game and in doing so, play NEW courses...   Heck, you know how long it took me to learn what little I know about Unity?   Took me a while.. mostly because when I get home from work, I don't have the free time to sit in front of my computer and go through every tutorial, book, video...  sure a little while ago, I learned what I learned simply because I had free time.   I personally want to try to build a course, but I chances are, its not going to be anything that great.. and even if I do, who knows when it will be done... so during that timeframe, I won't be able to contribute so I'm out?    

 

I don't know.. whatever.. its not life or death for me, so whatever happens, happens... 


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