412 replies to this topic

[DennisHarris]

Perfect Golf is already a small community when compared to other online gaming communities.  So I do not see a smaller community as a detriment.  I see that as a positive thing.      

I think PG will likely offer a yearly fee @ a discounted rate and a monthly fee.  This type of marketing scenario would offer the most flexibility for all the players.  Folks on a tight budget could opt for the monthly plan rather than a yearly fee.  Seems a smart plan IMO. 

All I know is I'm a hard core PG enthusiast even if I am a duffer by PG standards.  I thank the Developers for a job well done so far.  (Even when I disagree with them)   I am a PG lifer. 

[axe360]

If you've made the decision PP why not just crack on with it and put it out there?

 

Make the season pass payment option live along with the new, user created courses (you must have about 15 or 20 by now) and courseforge regardless of its current state (people have produced things with it up to now so it can't be far off)  and see what the take-up is like.

 

For what it's worth, I'm not a fan of this type of payment model but we'll all have to go with it if that's how it is.  I do fear that you're putting obtacles in the way of new players joining but to hell with it!  I've read enough of this thread with too'ing and fro'ing over the rights and wrongs and you would have taken on board the various views I'm sure. It won't make any difference to your decision in the short term especially if a number of testers have already expressed similar views to those stated here.

 

You make your choices and the game will succeed or fail based on them (I sincerely hope it succeeds), so crack on, make it live and those that want the new courses and are willing to pay the season pass can start to play them.

 

Believe me, I'm quite sure PG knows that very well. However, these guy's want to have a better relationship with the community then some other golf games that I know very well, the dev's were just not there for those communities.. If fact TWO devs rarely listened to the community and rarely changed anything.. But we see what happened to them..

 

So yes, in the end, they have a plan that they think will be very fair to all and generate the income needed. At least they listen to us and are a very visible force on these forums... I tell you, these guy's are what has been needed in a Dev team.. Full communication with the community.. Whether you agree with their plan or not..  There always communicating with us..

 

I may not agree all the time and they don't either and we all get along pretty damn good...

[Mike Jones]

Mike,

Yes, you say HB Studious is profiting off of user-created courses that the community designers make for the game. This is very true. However, when HB Studios were developing The Golf Club, they made sure to let designers know very early in the development process how sharing courses would work. That being said, designers knew from the outset that their creations would be freely shared over the three versions of the game (PS4, Xbox One and PC). They didn't come out and reveal their plan for course-sharing shortly before the final release of the game. They are not making profit off designer's work, they are making profit off the features offered and stated well before release.

 

 

Your logic makes no sense because in the example you use, TCG's course designer was available from the start of EA. CF has not yet been released so your logic is completely flawed. The rest of your post (which i have not bothered to quote) is nothing more than a rant based on your misconceptions and presumptions.

 

You are also making false and emotive accusations in your posts which will be deleted if you repeat them.

[sirputterman]

While I understand what your saying Kelson I think you are being a bit harsh that is just my opinion though and you certainly have every right to yours. Mike has said there would be benefits to those  that design courses for PP or the community that plays PP anyways. So they are in a way "compensated"

I'm am just going to throw this out there as a suggestion for PP and they can take it or leave it as they see fit. How about making the season pass all  inclusive even if you have to raise the price of that season pass. Now let me be clear on what I mean by "inclusive" this means you have the ability to design, test or play any course  available to the PP game and yes that includes licensed courses. Have a second option at a different price point for all courses only but no CF that means again all user and licensed courses. Have a third option for either buying  either single courses or a package of courses both user and licensed. Have a 4th option of just buying individual courses.

This would allow everyone  to pick and choose how or if they want to buy the add ons. The people that play off line may buy into the course only pass. The causal player may opt for the single course or package course deals. While those that want to design and play would go for the "full meal deal" plan.

This would give the flexibility that seems to be a sore point of getting what you the consumer wants but not paying for anything else you don't.

Is it perfect? Perhaps not and some may find issues with it but at least it does give a vriety of options on how you choose to play and pay.          

[Mike Jones]

 

Why didn't you release your business plan months ago? I bet I know. Because you knew the community would react like it has, and instead of 30 courses for the season pass, you were worried you wouldn't have as many. You're probably right, so you basically withheld information and hoped people would enjoy the Early Access so much that they would forgive you for withholding said information. As I stated earlier, you should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

Do you have access to the beta forums in a way I not know about or are you presuming to know the discussion and conversations that go in there? Also you seem to think you have an amazing ability to know exactly what the developers think and are only too quick to put words into their mouth and see the thought's in their head. 

 

You are the one who should be ashamed as I have rarely seen such a display of hubris on any public forum I have been involved in. You say your mind is made up so I will not respond to you further but be aware posts simply reiterating your position will be dealt with accordingly.

[JoeF]

Mike,

Yes, you say HB Studious is profiting off of user-created courses that the community designers make for the game. This is very true. However, when HB Studios were developing The Golf Club, they made sure to let designers know very early in the development process how sharing courses would work. That being said, designers knew from the outset that their creations would be freely shared over the three versions of the game (PS4, Xbox One and PC). They didn't come out and reveal their plan for course-sharing shortly before the final release of the game. They are not making profit off designer's work, they are making profit off the features offered and stated well before release.

 

You're contradicting yourself.  And by the way, the moment TGC mentioned the availability of free user created courses as a potential incentive to anyone purchasing the game - they were making money off of designers' work.

[Sinewiz]

Seems to me that everyone should simply wait until the pricing structure actually comes to fruition before making any more outlandish assumptions on exactly how it's going to unfold. Speaking strictly from a testers perspective it seems there's always been a litany of falsehoods against both Dev's and testers alike that continue to be repeated though only about 5% of the comments actually have any degree of truth to them. The one that's always made me chuckle is that somehow Dev's and testers are joined at the hip and have created some type of secret society that's separate from everyone else. Nothing could be further from the truth yet there's always someone ready to jump on their soap box and repeat the falsehood because of their own paranoia that someone "might" be getting something that they feel their entitled to.

 

Regarding some of the more recent comments such as Dev's "should be ashamed of themselves" is so far over the line that it boggles my mind that the comments are even being allowed. Seems the Dev's are showing far more restraint than I ever could.

 

Just don't understand why so many feel it's their responsibility to enlighten the creators of the game on how to make their project successful. Just let it play our and then make you're decision as to whether you want to be a part of it or not. Seems simple enough. The truth of the matter is that those that are most vocal aren't actually concerned as to whether the game has long term success but rather how can I get as much as possible for as little as possible.

[clubcaptain]

Its convenient for you to completely ignore my point regarding the designers - you do know that designers of courses will be able to have free season passes? 

 

You don't have to have a season pass to enjoy the game - no one who has access to CF for free has to make any courses. We are leaving all the choices in the hands of the people who play the game. We could have charged 3 times as much for the core game or we could have sold addons for CF or we could have sold magic balls and tees in the pro shop but were not doing that. We could have charged people to use CF but then that doesn't seem fair to the designers does it?

 

You fail to understand the basic concept of a community game - people who contribute to it get to design and play the game they want for free and we can keep on developing the game. See how many golf games have survived in the past by having a course design program?

 

You already know the answer to this of course. Stop with the knee jerk reactions without considering everything involved. How many courses  are available for TGC? How many were created by HB - do you seriously think that being able to play all the user made courses has no impact on people buying the game? Is it ok that HB studios profit from the work of others? You see things are not quite as clear cut as they may seem. If your mind is made up so be it, but to misrepresent the situation the way you are doing is not very fair.

Hang on. This is not what was said in the last 48 hours. What was said was that a designer could get a free pass by having a course rated as being "a good one" by PG.

What you have said now "designers of courses will be able to have free season passes" is unequivocal and is a game changer. That's great. Thank you. I'm now leaning much more in your direction.

[wim1234]

is it me??? it seems as if nobody listsens to nobody.

i see misconceptions galore, form customers and devs also.

at least this game do loostens tongues.

for me, i wait until its finalised, all crystalclear, and then decide if i am going with it or without.

in the meantime i ma having fun with tgc.

greetings all

[Mike Jones]

Hang on. This is not what was said in the last 48 hours. What was said was that a designer could get a free pass by having a course rated as being "a good one" by PG.
What you have said now "designers of courses will be able to have free season passes" is unequivocal and is a game changer. That's great. Thank you. I'm now leaning much more in your direction.

I qualified it because no one wants to see 1hour courses rushed out just to get a season pass.

[ed dawson]

I've had 24 hours to get my mind around the idea of paying for a season pass and have come to the conclusion that at under £1.00 per week it is a small price to pay to continue playing this game and hopefully creating a course worth sharing.  I don't think I would be tolerant of additional ancillary purchases as have featured in other games.

[Goran JoeMen]

I must say 5$ a month is a fine deal for playing every course that is going to be designed, think of all the great real courses you will be able to play in the coming years thanks to the game PG has created. 

If I pay the monthly fee for ten years and then get broke and penniless I will ask Mike to give me a lifetime pass, he is a good person so I am certain I will be able to still play at my retirement home for free 

[Dazmaniac]

I'm happy to wait and see what the prices are and hopefully PP will look at offering longer subscription periods (quarterly, 6 monthly, annually etc.) which will in turn offer a slight discount. Hope the single month fee is not the only option, but if it should be, I'll more than likely end up paying it.

 

I can spend $5 in one day buying my lunch when I'm at work, so being able to get 30 days of PG for the same price for me is a no brainer, lol.

[karma4u]

Actually, i really believe that there are too many folks getting up in arms against something they don't really understand and/or something that has not been adequately explained...

Personally, the only thing that i can see right now is designers having a slight disagreement with what i have seen proposed...

That said, IMO, there is a lot of merit to the idea....an idea, that i seriously believe could be expanded upon..to benefit all.......

The last thing is........folks, the world is changing and you will always have to pay to play......FACT......

Corporations do not give you anything for free.......MS lies..........  Cheers

[Kelson64]

You're contradicting yourself.  And by the way, the moment TGC mentioned the availability of free user created courses as a potential incentive to anyone purchasing the game - they were making money off of designers' work.

Joe, you are correct that TGC is making profit off of the courses that are designed by community members. However, HB Studios announced free user created courses very, very early on in the development process. This is what I meant when I clearly stated that they are making profit off of features stated well before release. So, in essence, HB Studios used the game's features to make a profit.

[Mike Jones]

Joe, you are correct that TGC is making profit off of the courses that are designed by community members. However, HB Studios announced free user created courses very, very early on in the development process. This is what I meant when I clearly stated that they are making profit off of features stated well before release. So, in essence, HB Studios used the game's features to make a profit.

I already answered this can you quote my reply please?

[Mike Jones]

Your logic makes no sense because in the example you use, TCG's course designer was available from the start of EA. CF has not yet been released so your logic is completely flawed.

Here kelson I made it easy for you as you obviously didn't bother to read my response when you first posted this. I did warn you that if you keep on repeating yourself I would delete your posts as I have no desire to keep answering the same points you make.

[HeNs]

Exactly BC, what a joke this topic has become

[HeNs]

wow, 10 pages 0f speculations. good stuff.

I know right topic getting ridiculous..!  

[Kelson64]

Here kelson I made it easy for you as you obviously didn't bother to read my response when you first posted this. I did warn you that if you keep on repeating yourself I would delete your posts as I have no desire to keep answering the same points you make.

Mike, I simply made a brief post toward JoeF that he quoted and said I was contradicting myself. I clarified what I said in a clear, concise manner. I'm sorry if I'm not able to respond to posts directed at me. I won't do it again.