412 replies to this topic

[RobV]

No, I said Licensed... there it is a PP Course, not a User Design.

Oh ok... gotcha, Ian.   sorry my mistake..  I would gladly pay for PP designed courses, no doubt about that.   Personally speaking, that's exactly how I would like to fund this game.   

[jcolton31]

Surely you know the answer to this ?

I wouldn't have asked if I knew the answer

[Trath]

So my question to everyone is, what's your monthly entertainment budget:

• pay for TV per month
• pay for internet access per month
• pay to rent movies per month
• pay to go to a nice restaurant to eat
• pay to smoke
• pay to drink
• pay to go for a ride at the amusement park
• pay for your weekly game of "rl" golf

and I can go on ad nauseam ... why is paying for dosens of hours of golfing entertainment on your PC any different from any of your other hobbies, entertainments or vices. You guys already pay for 100's of things you shouldn't but somehow those purchases are justified ... again logic boggles my mind.

 

As long as the game delivers and entertains me I will most probably pay, if it doesn't I wont. No rocket surgery required ...

[clubcaptain]

Mike, this actually makes a lot of sense to me..It allows you to control the quality of courses published. Still, there are good designers whose courses may be very good but does not meet PG standards..so, you may very well be ahead of me here...those designers should be looked after also......Encouragement, free passes etc..hey, the community could have a say in that......the community knows these designers...

Anyways, good luck going forward....i certainly would not attempt to second guess the PP business model...I am really looking forward to the natural development of PG....Remember......controllers..

Splutter, splutter !!!

PG to controlthe quality of courses published - really.

courses may be very good but does not meet PG standards - really.

Never heard anything like this.

" Here.  Buy this game from us which will allow you to create courses. Don't forget though, we're going to control your output".

Just can't believe it.

[mebby]

Sirputterman - technically not quite right, but that's Mike splitting the pedantics lol.
They claim to not own the course you created, however, they state you may not sell it without their permission. Therefore you only have the ability to distribute it freely. However, the actual file may not be played within the game itself without the user having a Season Pass.
So, worrybirdie, your offer of sharing it within the community for free isn't possible.

Exactly. And I think this sort of wording feels deceptive. Just say it like it is. In order to play user created Co tent you have to pay a monthly subscription charge.

The way they've worded it feels kinda like we are dealing with Slick Willy's Used Car Sales.

[IanD]

I wouldn't have asked if I knew the answer

 

Well, forgive me, but the whole discussion of this is in the Testers discussion that is available to you...

[IanD]

Splutter, splutter !!!

PG to controlthe quality of courses published - really.

courses may be very good but does not meet PG standards - really.

Never heard anything like this.

" Here.  Buy this game from us which will allow you to create courses. Don't forget though, we're going to control your output".

Just can't believe it.

 

Really....?? You see it that way..... overboard IMO...

[Richard]

Exactly. And I think this sort of wording feels deceptive. Just say it like it is. In order to play user created Co tent you have to pay a monthly subscription charge.

The way they've worded it feels kinda like we are dealing with Slick Willy's Used Car Sales.

 

Now please, let's not bring Bill Clinton into this discussion.

[Dazmaniac]

Splutter, splutter !!!

PG to controlthe quality of courses published - really.

courses may be very good but does not meet PG standards - really.

Never heard anything like this.

" Here.  Buy this game from us which will allow you to create courses. Don't forget though, we're going to control your output".

Just can't believe it.

 

Mike has said they will not be controlling user course output. Users will be able to create and release their courses as they see fit. Yes they will need to find somewhere to host the course file for download as PP will not be doing this for them and will not be vetting them prior to their release AFAIK. Courses will be free to download.

 

It just requires a season pass to be able to play them.

[bobbywins22]

Hi
It's my first time here and the first time i see this information (season pass and CF) . Some important facts for me :
0- i'm not fluent in english sorry for this
1- when i purchased that game it was for using PP and to be able to build and play my own course or other user courses - i know it was only $20 but it's not me who put that price on - it was not specified that i'll have to pay monthly for using CF
2- i'm a casual golfer - i like to play a little bit every day - like many user i won't be playing golf all day long - and i like to play SOLO and OFFLINE
3- I am a huge RPG gaming fan - i would like to play WOW but i will NEVER pay a monthly fee to play a game . Also don't compare PP to WOW - the fan base for a RPG is absolutely not the same as for a golf game (100 for 1? and i'm generous here)
4- CF is very expansive for PerfectParallel ??? - i didn't ask them to provide a so costly course designer - the only thing i was hoping is for a fair designer tool

This seems quite a final decision . The only thing i can say is good luck PerfectParallel with your model if you go this way. i'm sure i won't be the only one to refuse to pay monthly - maybe TGC is more arcade but you know it's a game and it's fun - which game do you think other casual golfers like me will choose to buy?
And don't tell me that if i don't pay the season pass i still can play the included course - Hey ! it' still not the original deal that it was supposed to be for me! AND I don't like to have a restricted game (CF not accessible) - it's so frustating (no i won't pay monthly)
Sorry for my rant

Here hear m8 - there won't be many heading over from TGC and new casual virtual golfers wishing to join a fun and good golf game will all be joining TGC is my guess

[Kelson64]

Thanks Obama.

[clubcaptain]

If you don't buy a season pass, you won't have access to courses created by the community in CF. There is nothing stopping you from downloading them as they are free, but you can't play then without a pass of some kind, be that monthly, quarterly, 6 monthly, annually etc.

 

You will have access to any stock content that comes with the game, plus any free courses PP release and any licensed courses that you may purchase (like Bethesda).

Nicely encapsulated. Brief but correct.

However, what the comments do is show up the weakness, glaring weakness, that the number of user made courses will dwarf the number of PG made courses but you have to pay to play them. If ever there was a marketing hook to draw people in it surely would be that you could have this great reservoir of available free courses.

Additionally, there is a conflict which arises. PG have amde it clear that they cannot charge for user made courses. As a designer I don't see it any other way and if there ever was a charge made by PG for MY courses I would stop  creating them. That seems pretty clear ?

But, here's the conflict. By making people pay for a season pass to play my course they are in fact charging for that course by the back door. OK with a lot of courses involved this indirect  charge per course will be miniscule. It doesn't change the principle though that playing my course is costing money and that's not right.

[clubcaptain]

Mike has said they will not be controlling user course output. Users will be able to create and release their courses as they see fit. Yes they will need to find somewhere to host the course file for download as PP will not be doing this for them and will not be vetting them prior to their release AFAIK. Courses will be free to download.

 

It just requires a season pass to be able to play them.

My mistake Daz. Agree PG NOT controlling output but introducing provisos on who gets a free pass.

[mebby]

Mike has said they will not be controlling user course output. Users will be able to create and release their courses as they see fit. Yes they will need to find somewhere to host the course file for download as PP will not be doing this for them and will not be vetting them prior to their release AFAIK. Courses will be free to download.

It just requires a season pass to be able to play them.

So what's the benefit (to a non designer) of downloading a course if you can't play it?

[axe360]

I was also one of those beta testers who wanted and "all inclusive subscription" option (maybe we still will)  but as other testers have said, we were not involved in PG's discussions and PG is going to do what They feel is best for them. Can't say as I blame them. I just hope they don't hang their hats to high on the "season pass". Designers are going to have to be churning out courses to keep the community paying for them. I, as many of us have given our opinions and PG will make up their own minds, so in the end, we still all have a choice, you can buy the core game with the Licensed courses and your good. If you want to play user made courses, looks like you will have to pay for it.. Not our decision.

 

Take TW's for instance. You paid for the core game, the licensed courses and you were good till the next year. Yes, the community had free user-made courses but please remember, TW;s PGA TOUR is no more,, Maybe that's the reason? Yes there are still user-made courses being made but TW's isn't making any money on that. So everyone is playing it since 08 for free.. You can hardly stay in business like that can you?

 

If I had my way, there would be no "season pass" just and all inclusive monthly or  yearly  subscription, designers aren't being paid and so they will build courses at their leisure, so we don't really know if there will be enough, to justify a "season pass" yet...

I don't think charging per course or course pack was going to fly but I think PG is a fair team of folks and I don't think their going to do something that NO ONE wants or will pay for? If they do, I 'm sure they will adjust.

 

Let's wait and see..

[NoPutt]

 

$5 a month, that's nothing, I just found $3.75 in my couch.

16 cents a day, to play the most realistic video golf game ever,

and build your own courses. There's nothing

to moan about here...move along.

 

 

this is not the point at all for me NoPutt

its a matter of priciple to me that if users are wuilling to give courses away for free, they are not allowed to do that now.

to me thisi is completely worng and destroys the ,i make something for you at no cost idea.

 

and what about this, say i have the pass, for 2 years, downloaded 100 courses, i have loads a fun, great value for me fiver.

now something happens, the company goes broke, or whatever, i cant pay the fee anymore, and no more playing all them courses on my hd.  this could happen.  i really doubt if the devs seen all the ramifications of this decision, i say no.

but to me free usercreated stuff should be possible and freely usable , it aint free with this model

 

it will be very interesting to see how this develops, but my feelings are not so good about it, no one playing tgc is going over this way.

 

Oh but the user courses are free, and we are allowed to give them away for free,

and there are many ways to contribute to the PP community to be able to gain

passes for free. 

[Kelson64]

You can download user-designed courses, but you can't play them unless you have a season pass. However, you can play courses and use stock content released by Perfect Parallel at any time without a season pass.

 

To me, it should be the other way around.

 

You will need a season pass to play courses and use stock content released by Perfect Parallel, but you don't need a season pass to play user designed courses.

 

Let's face it. Perfect Parallel is using course designers (who, in the past, do this for the sheer joy of doing creating courses), to make money for themselves. It's not right, and I think Perfect Parallel should be ashamed of themselves. They should have released this information months ago.

[axe360]

You can download user-designed courses, but you can't play them unless you have a season pass. However, you can play courses and use stock content released by Perfect Parallel at any time without a season pass.

 

To me, it should be the other way around.

 

You will need a season pass to play courses and use stock content released by Perfect Parallel, but you don't need a season pass to play user designed courses.

 

Let's face it. Perfect Parallel is using course designers (who, in the past, do this for the sheer joy of doing creating courses), to make money for themselves. It's not right, and I think Perfect Parallel should be ashamed of themselves. They should have released this information months ago.

 

Believe me, the designers still do it for the "sheer joy of doing it" PG is offering them incentives so to speak, not money....

The game that offered free user-made courses went belly up for that and other reasons, PG is smart for trying to not repeat others business failures.....

[Dazmaniac]

So what's the benefit (to a non designer) of downloading a course if you can't play it?

 

There isn't any. I'm just telling it as it is. They will be free to download (as some folks think they have to pay for them) but to play them you need a pass.

 

Not my decision. You need to contact PP.

[DC#1]

I have to agree with you clubcaptain, Kelson64 and Daz.